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Fallschirmjäger is very OP!

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1 Oct 2019, 19:22 PM
#361
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2333

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2019, 18:39 PMKobal
It's true that Fallschirmjägers can't be compared to commandos , they are much much better than them and they are cheaper as well.

But you just compared Falls with commandos and to make things worse you didnt specified on which specific field falls are better.

I disagree with this kind of arguments because they self invalidate.
Commandos are less seen than Falls because of meta, thats true though.

I see too many people messing the concept of elite inf vs specialist inf. Both are expensive but they are way different from each other, like premium tanks and TDs.
1 Oct 2019, 19:28 PM
#362
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4340


But you just compared Falls with commandos and to make things worse you didnt specified on which specific field falls are better.

I disagree with this kind of arguments because they self invalidate.
Commandos are less seen than Falls because of meta, thats true though.

I see too many people messing the concept of elite inf vs specialist inf. Both are expensive but they are way different from each other, like premium tanks and TDs.
it's statement id false form the start

he didn't brother checking stats or actually test the unit

commando with bren beat falls at all ranges even at max vet
1 Oct 2019, 19:40 PM
#363
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130


But you just compared Falls with commandos and to make things worse you didnt specified on which specific field falls are better.

I disagree with this kind of arguments because they self invalidate.
Commandos are less seen than Falls because of meta, thats true though.

I see too many people messing the concept of elite inf vs specialist inf. Both are expensive but they are way different from each other, like premium tanks and TDs.


They are better than commandos at everything really . They can kill infantry effectively at all ranges and they can even ward off tanks with their snare. Commandos are alright at close range I guess but even then they cost so much to call in and then to reinforce. You also need commandos in light cover at all time preparing ambushes where falchis can just run at you regardless of the cover they use.
1 Oct 2019, 19:41 PM
#364
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130

it's statement id false form the start

he didn't brother checking stats or actually test the unit

commando with bren beat falls at all ranges even at max vet


Falchis will win against commandos with the first strike bonus as I could experience it first hand in my own games
1 Oct 2019, 20:04 PM
#365
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7208 | Subs: 1

unfortunately is impossible to test both with firsts strike bonus as changing team will remove the stealth and bonus

btw i don't see many falls right now, is that an argument ?


The argument is: did Commandos with Brens were even a thing in any given time during high ranked 1v1 games, teamgames or tournament play? Not talking about been OP, but been used at all. From release of UKF up to this point.

If a test removes a core function of a unit or makes it hard to test alone, then it doesn't describe what it is happening in the game.
1 Oct 2019, 20:04 PM
#366
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2333

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2019, 19:40 PMKobal


They are better than commandos at everything really . They can kill infantry effectively at all ranges and they can even ward off tanks with their snare. Commandos are alright at close range I guess but even then they cost so much to call in and then to reinforce. You also need commandos in light cover at all time preparing ambushes where falchis can just run at you regardless of the cover they use.

Not true, not true at all. Would you mind to back up your claims with proper stats/gameplay footage (do not include L2P situations). But hey at least there is free speech in this forums.

Btw good luck scaring that sherman tank and its HE rounds, with your 340 MP FSJ deployed behind enemy lines or if you feel im being picky, a single well placed HE blast will cost you 60 MP and it took a single shot in less than a second. To kill a tank with pzfaust will cost you more than 200 muni and at least 5 squads (worth 1500+MP), Very useful against tanks.

Commandos wreak havok in CQC range, uncontested since they have been in the game, now that they are contested, they are suddendly no longer OP, but FSJ are? HMMMMMMM....
If a running FSJ scares you, good news, HMGs exists, 50 cal is awsome, vickers does just fine (kills models better than any other HMG) and maxim, well...
1 Oct 2019, 20:08 PM
#367
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130


Not true, not true at all. Would you mind to back up your claims with proper stats/gameplay footage (do not include L2P situations). But hey at least there is free speech in this forums.

Btw good luck scaring that sherman tank and its HE rounds, with your 340 MP FSJ deployed behind enemy lines or if you feel im being picky, a single well placed HE blast will cost you 60 MP and it took a single shot in less than a second. To kill a tank with pzfaust will cost you more than 200 muni and at least 5 squads (worth 1500+MP), Very useful against tanks.



Im talking mainly as a british player playing against OKW in 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations , when I say they can ward off tanks I mean we can't just run our tanks up to the Fallschirmjägers to attempt to crush them or to lower the scatter. If they have 2 squads of them together which happen quite often then they can double snare a medium tank from full hp which is not very expensive. I feel that with the current power of these elites troops they don't need to be able to defend themselves from tanks.
1 Oct 2019, 20:10 PM
#368
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130


Not true, not true at all. Would you mind to back up your claims with proper stats/gameplay footage (do not include L2P situations). But hey at least there is free speech in this forums.

Btw good luck scaring that sherman tank and its HE rounds, with your 340 MP FSJ deployed behind enemy lines or if you feel im being picky, a single well placed HE blast will cost you 60 MP and it took a single shot in less than a second. To kill a tank with pzfaust will cost you more than 200 muni and at least 5 squads (worth 1500+MP), Very useful against tanks.

Commandos wreak havok in CQC range, uncontested since they have been in the game, now that they are contested, they are suddendly no longer OP, but FSJ are? HMMMMMMM....
If a running FSJ scares you, good news, HMGs exists, 50 cal is awsome, vickers does just fine (kills models better than any other HMG) and maxim, well...
The problem is that we never really see commandos in any serious game because they are so hard to use.
1 Oct 2019, 20:11 PM
#369
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4340



The argument is: did Commandos with Brens were even a thing in any given time during high ranked 1v1 games, teamgames or tournament play? Not talking about been OP, but been used at all. From release of UKF up to this point.

If a test removes a core function of a unit or makes it hard to test alone, then it doesn't describe what it is happening in the game.
cause falls are now ?
1 Oct 2019, 20:13 PM
#370
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4094 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2019, 20:10 PMKobal
The problem is that we never really see commandos in any serious game because they are so hard to use.

i think its more because the game has moved away from tactical plays to brute force. why get a unit that ambushes when you can get a unit that can attack frontally? this is literally why old falls were not seeing use and new falls are.
1 Oct 2019, 20:14 PM
#371
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130

cause falls are now ?
Yes they are being used a lot in 2vs2 games and even in 1vs1 situation. I see 2-3 squads of them per okw player in my games very frequently.
1 Oct 2019, 20:14 PM
#372
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2333

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2019, 20:08 PMKobal



Im talking mainly as a british player playing against OKW in 1vs1 and 2vs2 situations , when I say they can ward off tanks I mean we can't just run our tanks up to the Fallschirmjägers to attempt to crush them or to lower the scatter. If they have 2 squads of them together which happen quite often then they can double snare a medium tank from full hp which is not very expensive. I feel that with the current power of these elites troops they don't need to be able to defen themselves from tanks.

As a UKF player yourself then, why on earth are your cromwells and Churchills in enemy ATG range when falls want to snare then? Where is the rest of your core army?

A squad FSJ is costly enough to not be thrown into a deathpit, but if the other player scouted and already flanked with FSJ then they do what they are ment to, flank and destroy. Its like a TD killing tanks or a mortar emptying garrisons. No big surprise. At least FSJ now do their job effectively, before the buff it was too risky to even try it.
1 Oct 2019, 20:15 PM
#373
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130


i think its more because the game has moved away from tactical plays to brute force. why get a unit that ambushes when you can get a unit that can attack frontally? this is literally why old falls were not seeing use and new falls are.


And this is part of the problem exactly , the new Fallschirmjägers encourage blopping because they are able to decrew mgs in the front even if they are behind light cover.
1 Oct 2019, 20:17 PM
#374
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130


As a UKF player yourself then, why on earth are your cromwells and Churchills in enemy ATG range when falls want to snare then? Where is the rest of your core army?

A squad FSJ is costly enough to not be thrown into a deathpit, but if the other player scouted and already flanked with FSJ then they do what they are ment to, flank and destroy. Its like a TD killing tanks or a mortar emptying garrisons. No big surprise. At least FSJ now do their job effectively, before the buff it was too risky to even try it.



Im fine with the current falchis's power level if they have their faust removed. Also the rest of my army is being bullied by 2-3 squads of Fallschirmjägers.
1 Oct 2019, 20:20 PM
#375
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4094 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2019, 20:17 PMKobal



Im fine with the current falchis's power level if they have their faust removed. Also the rest of my army is being bullied by 2-3 squads of Fallschirmjägers.

id sooner they keep their faust and get their power reduced
without a snare they more or less become a different flavour of ober, just with unstacked DPS and camo

1 Oct 2019, 20:24 PM
#376
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130


id sooner they keep their faust and get their power reduced
without a snare they more or less become a different flavour of ober, just with unstacked DPS and camo




That's what I would prefer as well but if we have to make concessions to give them more buffs then they should at the very least remove their fausts because they are meant to be elite infantry good against any infantry. I just feel that their potential snare on top of all that make them way too hard to counter. Even if you try to stay at range with your mediums tanks , they have access to a sprint in their commander to reach you quite easily.
1 Oct 2019, 20:37 PM
#377
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2333

I would like to adress the fact that we are talking Falls vs UKF specifically, when the most offended should be SU for obvious reasons (bad MG, sub Optimal stock infantry)

If the issue is late game scenarios, if axis infantry is the problem, then recur to big AoE skills, rocket arty, Tanks with good AI and HMGs and problemo solved.
UKF has IS pyro howitzers, cromwells-churchills-centaurs, no rocket arty maybe but good killing HMGs.

In CoH2 not killing can be considered a win, a retreating squad is a small victory, a displaced unit is a unit being softly defeated. Since unit preservation is important neither axis or allies have omnipotent luxury of deleting enemies squad at will.

Falls are good, dont get me wrong, they are the new JLI but going hyperbolic on their performance is just wrong. If FSJ faust is removed they are no longer elite infantry if they loose their AI they become ambush specialist infantry (but now its bonus is at Vet5, ending in an overall nerf)

On the other side If reinforce cost is increased then falls will be less used in frontlines and in bad trade scenarios
1 Oct 2019, 20:43 PM
#378
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 7208 | Subs: 1

cause falls are now ?


I've seen more Falls on release, post OKW rework, pre/post Luftwaffe rework, post Falls rework than Commandos with Brens. Be them meta or not, be that Falls were used only when they were dropped through a munition call in with useless planes or not.

Note: i'm not talking about CURRENT FALLs, post hotfix, but rather the value of the test you did. What's the point on comparing it to something which is not seen use, without the DPS boost which might actually be what makes them broken (+50% boost).
1 Oct 2019, 20:45 PM
#379
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4340

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Oct 2019, 20:14 PMKobal
Yes they are being used a lot in 2vs2 games and even in 1vs1 situation. I see 2-3 squads of them per okw player in my games very frequently.
mind showing some ?
1 Oct 2019, 23:14 PM
#380
avatar of Kobal

Posts: 130

mind showing some ?


Alright I will post replays where we see them in use when I get the chance
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