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russian armor

Jagdtiger not reliable anymore?

11 Sep 2019, 23:02 PM
#61
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1253



Maybe there is some bug that counts the shot at the end of a rotation towards target as still moving? I noticed that it's usually those that the JT misses. Like when you order it to attack, it rotates the vehicles then once the vehicle is in range it shoots and misses. I dont't think it's a coincidence either. I sometimes used the JT for casual fun games before the last changes and it was insane how often it would miss. The "new" JT did the same when I played today. Even on ranges around 20-30 or sometimes even lower than that.


IIRC, Stugs were losing their spotting scope ability when rotating to shoot. I think rotation does count as movement for anything without a turret. I haven't tried a spotting scope on a Stug in awhile so I can't say for certain.
11 Sep 2019, 23:11 PM
#62
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6199 | Subs: 1


Vulnerable as in are able to get in there and suicide bomb you unchecked. 2jt shots and 1 of anything else is enough to kill a t34 so unless it was cloaked when driving straight at the JT there wasn't sufficient support to counter the risk the Soviet was placing in their attack. Alternatively the ram came from a flank which is also fair game.

Imo Ram/off map is way too effective while relatively easy to pull even frontally (in 2vs2 games and 1vs1).

I would try moving redesigning Ram to be a skill shot that scale with veterancy.
11 Sep 2019, 23:49 PM
#63
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3150



IIRC, Stugs were losing their spotting scope ability when rotating to shoot. I think rotation does count as movement for anything without a turret. I haven't tried a spotting scope on a Stug in awhile so I can't say for certain.


Rotation does count as movement yes and applies the moving accuracy debuff accordingly. However the JT and elephant (and maybe the ISU) cannot fire while moving/rotating, so if it is firing with the moving accuracy debuff it is a bug instead of intended.
11 Sep 2019, 23:51 PM
#64
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 444

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2019, 23:11 PMVipper

Imo Ram/off map is way too effective while relatively easy to pull even frontally (in 2vs2 games and 1vs1).

I would try moving redesigning Ram to be a skill shot that scale with veterancy.


Ram is not the problem. The new soviet airborne ability is. It give you zero time to react. Il2 has to be setup in advance, the rocket strike does not. All the top players are starting to abuse it.
12 Sep 2019, 03:39 AM
#65
avatar of Switzerland
Donator 33

Posts: 471

I tried the new JT and hated it. It's a clone of the Ele while being stuck in a bad doctrine. Really boring balancing. Barrage ability is complete shit, not sure why it wasn't buffed. Still misses a ton of shots due to how little the gun traverses and the constant rotating giving it 0.5 accuracy on many shots. Please change the JT again, the current approach is horrible.


Well for that try out you had a Jagd with the really fast movement speed stats with 80 range till the hotfix a couple hours ago. So you didnt try it or you wanted it to seem bad, congratulations you played yourself.
12 Sep 2019, 06:30 AM
#66
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1430



Well for that try out you had a Jagd with the really fast movement speed stats with 80 range till the hotfix a couple hours ago. So you didnt try it or you wanted it to seem bad, congratulations you played yourself.


Your point is what exactly? How is it my fault the JT range was bugged? And how does the JT being bugged mean I didn't test it.

And again I said 100 times that I find the new JT boring and that it might become more frequently used unlike the old JT which was virtually extinct. Boring isn't the same as under powered.
12 Sep 2019, 13:47 PM
#67
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1253

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2019, 23:11 PMVipper

Imo Ram/off map is way too effective while relatively easy to pull even frontally (in 2vs2 games and 1vs1).

I would try moving redesigning Ram to be a skill shot that scale with veterancy.


There are many ways to counter or avoid being rammed. If you tried playing Soviets then you'd know how. Or you can just keep whining on the forums. Anyway, what does this have to do with the JT?
12 Sep 2019, 14:23 PM
#68
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6199 | Subs: 1



There are many ways to counter or avoid being rammed. If you tried playing Soviets then you'd know how. Or you can just keep whining on the forums. Anyway, what does this have to do with the JT?

Pls do not make this personal and if you read my previous post you will say that just said that I just rammed 2 elephant thus I play Soviets, actually since the patch I have more games as Soviets.

The units are balanced on how easily they are countered thus as long as ram is an easy counter to these vehicles the unit will hard to balance, thus the relevance.
12 Sep 2019, 17:13 PM
#69
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1883 | Subs: 3

And again I said 100 times that I find the new JT boring and that it might become more frequently used unlike the old JT which was virtually extinct. Boring isn't the same as under powered.


A valid point, but it was a rather last minute change and the Elefant is (imo) a proven concept. I honestly don't know what else could've been done to make the unit more attractive without making it overpowered again.

These changes should make the Jagdtiger a lot more user friendly and will hopefully have a good impact on the meta by making it a viable choice for OKW in team games, which would allow Ostheer to pick something other than Jeager Armor.
12 Sep 2019, 17:22 PM
#70
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



A valid point, but it was a rather last minute change and the Elefant is (imo) a proven concept. I honestly don't know what else could've been done to make the unit more attractive without making it overpowered again.

These changes should make the Jagdtiger a lot more user friendly and will hopefully have a good impact on the meta by making it a viable choice for OKW in team games, which would allow Ostheer to pick something other than Jeager Armor.
jager armor comes with a very good doc, jt not as much (sturm officer is bad, and break through is situational, of map is not guaranteed to kill arty like stuka bomb, spotting scopes make ele a real heavy TD )

and elephant still has better mobility

maybe make the ability more responsive ? less dealy before activation for both, and make it so that world piercing round auto target like pak 43 or 17 pounder
12 Sep 2019, 17:44 PM
#71
avatar of t_d_kay

Posts: 9

Swap Jagdtiger with Sturmtiger. Elite Armor having an actual, usable elite tank makes sense to me. Remove the world-piercing round and replace it with the normal HEAT round.
That will give it back some of its former glory, 2-shotting mediums but only for a short while. Its reload time sucks anyway.
Also buff the Sturmtiger while you're at it.
13 Sep 2019, 14:22 PM
#72
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1253



A valid point, but it was a rather last minute change and the Elefant is (imo) a proven concept. I honestly don't know what else could've been done to make the unit more attractive without making it overpowered again.

These changes should make the Jagdtiger a lot more user friendly and will hopefully have a good impact on the meta by making it a viable choice for OKW in team games, which would allow Ostheer to pick something other than Jeager Armor.


I tried it in a 4v4 last night. I'm probably in the minority here but I like the new JT. The improved speed helps it get around the map much better and improves survivability to the point that I never felt in danger of losing it. I had to back it out of combat a couple times to repair. The new arty in the doctrine feels almost too good.

The 4v4 was on Port of Hamburg. We were down 464 to 9 at around the 21 minute mark. Two of my teammates got "garbage" KT's and I got a "garbage" JT. We got what must be a "garbage" victory at 45 minutes with the 9 VP's still intact. When I had to back off the center VP, being able to drop the off-map arty on the center VP kept them from being able to get it and was a game saver.
13 Sep 2019, 14:28 PM
#73
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1883 | Subs: 3

jager armor comes with a very good doc, jt not as much (sturm officer is bad, and break through is situational, of map is not guaranteed to kill arty like stuka bomb, spotting scopes make ele a real heavy TD


The Sturm Offizier is a (very) good unit now imo with a lot of versatility (with vet it has good combat power, and the abilities and smoke grenade are really useful in support of your Pfussies) and it will get shared veterancy in an upcoming bugfix patch. Panzerfusiliers are really great infantry for their new cost and they can support the Jagdtiger with flares for sight. The offmap is pretty damn devastating to static defenses (it's not meant to counter howitzers) or is at least guaranteed to force the enemy to reposition or avoid a big area entirely. The new Jagdtiger is much more responsive and much easier to play with and more versatile.

In my opinion Breakthrough is now easily a top tier commander for team games, able to compete with Jeager Armor. It should hopefully finally allow Ostheer to pick other commanders and spice up the Axis meta.
13 Sep 2019, 14:34 PM
#74
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128


it isnt this hard when u flank it with some t34 and ramm it or use mother russia and satchel it....not this hard when u play smart...


I was trying to tell you the same in other thread, it isn't even hard to flank isu 152 with some panthers and use pzgren passive sprint to shreck it and sbare it with baseline grens/volks. Also valiant assault can be used aswell to snare isu. Not this hard when you play smart.
13 Sep 2019, 14:46 PM
#75
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



The Sturm Offizier is a (very) good unit now imo with a lot of versatility (with vet it has good combat power, and the abilities and smoke grenade are really useful in support of your Pfussies) and it will get shared veterancy in an upcoming bugfix patch. Panzerfusiliers are really great infantry for their new cost and they can support the Jagdtiger with flares for sight. The offmap is pretty damn devastating to static defenses (it's not meant to counter howitzers) or is at least guaranteed to force the enemy to reposition or avoid a big area entirely. The new Jagdtiger is much more responsive and much easier to play with and more versatile.

just compare it to commissar, less hp, worse RA, worse abilities(mass pin/retreart for 45 mun vs 1 squad retreat for 60 mun and it has medic supply) and it cost 20 mp more, at vet 2 it loses to penal (315 mp vs 300)

i still think making the abilities less clunky is needed and again i don't think it will replace jager armor it just much better doc over all
13 Sep 2019, 14:57 PM
#76
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128



Ram is not the problem. The new soviet airborne ability is. It give you zero time to react. Il2 has to be setup in advance, the rocket strike does not. All the top players are starting to abuse it.

They have already added delay in il2 rocket strafe. And ot requires skill to aim. And most of the times rickets hit ground if you are not lucky.

Btw okw skill planes say Hi! Please don't forget them
13 Sep 2019, 14:59 PM
#77
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128

just compare it to commissar, less hp, worse RA, worse abilities(mass pin/retreart for 45 mun vs 1 squad retreat for 60 mun and it has medic supply) and it cost 20 mp more, at vet 2 it loses to penal (315 mp vs 300)

i still think making the abilities less clunky is needed and again i don't think it will replace jager armor it just much better doc over all

If you see tightrope's video you would have known it scales better with veterancy. At vet 5 officer model gets a stg.
13 Sep 2019, 15:06 PM
#78
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1571 | Subs: 2

I really like the new jadtiger. The out of combat speed is awesome to move around. For my personal taste i dont Know why you need all tier buildings since rushing it at 15cp is nonsense anyway
13 Sep 2019, 15:32 PM
#79
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891


If you see tightrope's video you would have known it scales better with veterancy. At vet 5 officer model gets a stg.
yep only at vet 5 , up until then it has a pistol, give the stg form the start
13 Sep 2019, 16:08 PM
#80
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 128

yep only at vet 5 , up until then it has a pistol, give the stg form the start
and that would result in a broken unit.
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