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russian armor

Jagdtiger not reliable anymore?

11 Sep 2019, 16:59 PM
#41
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3088 | Subs: 1



That's silly. There is no way you will always have enough units in front of a JT to kill a ramming T34. AT-guns will do nothing because unless you have 4 of them they cant kill the T34 fast enough. It's also not realistic to have every single inch of the map covered up with mines.

I understand a lot of legit arguments against OKW units being too good (like old Command Panther for example) but trying to somehow make JT look like it's too good or easy to use is just stupid. JTs were never used in 1v1 and 2v2 and only very rarely in 3v3 and 4v4. There is a reason for that.

The changes made the JT easier to use so there is a chance it will be used more often now but at the same time I also feel the balance approach was very lazy and made the game more boring because it reduced the few existing differences between JT and Ele even more.

all you need is literally 1 volks squad if the tank is coming from the front, or 2 if coming from a flank (Assuming you didnt do anything to protect the flank of your nearly 300 fuel case mate unit) the jt takes sligtly less than half a normal tanks heath off leaving it WELL beneath the threshold for a snare. snared tanks dont ram and snared tanks that were diving to get a 70 range unit bhind your lines are dead tanks, assuming you have done literally anything at all aside from call in the JT and expect that to win for you.
if the enemy gets their tanks or infantry that far behind your lines you are supposed to get punished for it, im sorry getting punished for fucking up feels like a balance team attack against you...

i know they do a shit job of showing it sometimes, but this gme is supposed to be about combined arms. support your units and they will do much better
11 Sep 2019, 17:30 PM
#42
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1430



Accuracy on JT is now 0.06/0.05/0.035.
Elefant has 0.055/0.045/0.03.

Considering neither can fire on the move and thus do not have movement accuracy penalties, the Jagdtiger is definitely more accurate on paper (and should be in the game obviously).


Maybe there is some bug that counts the shot at the end of a rotation towards target as still moving? I noticed that it's usually those that the JT misses. Like when you order it to attack, it rotates the vehicles then once the vehicle is in range it shoots and misses. I dont't think it's a coincidence either. I sometimes used the JT for casual fun games before the last changes and it was insane how often it would miss. The "new" JT did the same when I played today. Even on ranges around 20-30 or sometimes even lower than that.
11 Sep 2019, 17:37 PM
#43
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1430


all you need is literally 1 volks squad if the tank is coming from the front, or 2 if coming from a flank (Assuming you didnt do anything to protect the flank of your nearly 300 fuel case mate unit) the jt takes sligtly less than half a normal tanks heath off leaving it WELL beneath the threshold for a snare. snared tanks dont ram and snared tanks that were diving to get a 70 range unit bhind your lines are dead tanks, assuming you have done literally anything at all aside from call in the JT and expect that to win for you.
if the enemy gets their tanks or infantry that far behind your lines you are supposed to get punished for it, im sorry getting punished for fucking up feels like a balance team attack against you...

i know they do a shit job of showing it sometimes, but this gme is supposed to be about combined arms. support your units and they will do much better


I wonder why you aren't a top 10 Axis player considering how easy the game is for you. Just for your information, JT and Ele aren't used 70 meters behind enemy lines because they have to protect your infantry against things like Scotts, Pershings, IS2, T34, Crocodiles etc. If they are 70 meters behind your infantry and other tanks they won't do shit. There are some things where I do agree micro fuck-ups are to blame (like getting your tank satcheled by Penals) but ramming T34s are not one of them. Anyone semi-realistic will realize that.
11 Sep 2019, 17:41 PM
#44
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891



Maybe there is some bug that counts the shot at the end of a rotation towards target as still moving? I noticed that it's usually those that the JT misses. Like when you order it to attack, it rotates the vehicles then once the vehicle is in range it shoots and misses. I dont't think it's a coincidence either. I sometimes used the JT for casual fun games before the last changes and it was insane how often it would miss. The "new" JT did the same when I played today. Even on ranges around 20-30 or sometimes even lower than that.
u could try putting a Jackson at mid range of the jt and see if it misses, it should have 100% chance to hit at mid range
11 Sep 2019, 17:45 PM
#45
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1886 | Subs: 3

Maybe there is some bug that counts the shot at the end of a rotation towards target as still moving?


No, the Elefant and Jagdtiger literally have no moving accuracy modifier.
https://coh2db.com/stats/
11 Sep 2019, 17:58 PM
#46
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1430

Well I just tested it out in-cheat mod and the JT would literally not miss a single shot. Not sure how it is then that it missed so many shots in all the actual games I used it in in the last months. I had a game on Minsk today where the JT would miss a Comet twice at around range 10.
11 Sep 2019, 18:03 PM
#47
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891

Well I just tested it out in-cheat mod and the JT would literally not miss a single shot. Not sure how it is then that it missed so many shots in all the actual games I used it in in the last months. I had a game on Minsk today where the JT would miss a Comet twice at around range 10.
wtf that’s mathematically impossible
11 Sep 2019, 18:15 PM
#48
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1430

wtf that’s mathematically impossible


That makes me think there is some bug that causes it to miss. I will try using it more and post a replay if it happens again.
11 Sep 2019, 18:20 PM
#49
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3088 | Subs: 1



I wonder why you aren't a top 10 Axis player considering how easy the game is for you. Just for your information, JT and Ele aren't used 70 meters behind enemy lines because they have to protect your infantry against things like Scotts, Pershings, IS2, T34, Crocodiles etc. If they are 70 meters behind your infantry and other tanks they won't do shit. There are some things where I do agree micro fuck-ups are to blame (like getting your tank satcheled by Penals) but ramming T34s are not one of them. Anyone semi-realistic will realize that.

I said 70 range unit behind your lines not 70 range behind your lines. And for the math, a 40range unit hitting the front and a 70 range unit hitting them leaves 30range of lines needing to be pushed through to get to the JT. although that doesn't matter a whole lot because if they get to you frontally then you didn't have a proper army composition in place and deserve to take some damage and if the flanked you again, it's a matter of deserving it. If a t34 is diving through your lines and Ramming your JT so the enemy can follow up with a penal blob to plink your tank away or satchel the shit out of it that isn't by any metric a balance issue. The JT is better in every metric but range. If you could use an elefant you can use a JT. Especially with the new, better raketen to back it up with a bit of buffer range.
By all means if there is an actual balance issue I'll offer solutions but the enemy getting to and destroying one of the longest range and the most heavily armored unit via dives and combined arms isn't one...
11 Sep 2019, 18:40 PM
#50
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 534


it isnt this hard when u flank it with some t34 and ramm it or use mother russia and satchel it....not this hard when u play smart...


So people can use tactics to kill a Jagtiger...why is this a problem again?
11 Sep 2019, 18:50 PM
#51
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2019, 18:40 PMCODGUY

So people can use tactics to kill a Jagtiger...why is this a problem again?


Because if a 260 fuel unit is vulnerable to a ram and a one click delete (il2) its not a very good unit?
11 Sep 2019, 18:52 PM
#52
avatar of Heavy Sapper

Posts: 354

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2019, 18:40 PMCODGUY


So people can use tactics to kill a Jagtiger...why is this a problem again?


When being smart as an allies player become a balance issue. 10/10 of troll, dude.
11 Sep 2019, 18:59 PM
#53
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3088 | Subs: 1



Because if a 260 fuel unit is vulnerable to a ram and a one click delete (il2) its not a very good unit?

If it is in a position to be vulnerable to ram you deswrve to lose it. Its a balance component called "counter play" you see, a unit that has 450 front armour, 70 range and guaranteed pen against all enemies as well as a barrage that can fuck up static crews has to be killable some how. That somehow is by taking risks and exploiting its low mobility. It's not a balance issue. It's actually intended
11 Sep 2019, 21:04 PM
#54
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 109

Like, has a single one of you noticed that I proven on the previous page that JT still has more range than the Elefant (or ISU 152, inmobile KV2), aka more than 70?!? Smh...
11 Sep 2019, 21:07 PM
#55
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891

Like, has a single one of you noticed that I proven on the previous page that JT still has more range than the Elefant (or ISU 152, inmobile KV2), aka more than 70?!? Smh...
it's the longer gun
11 Sep 2019, 21:09 PM
#56
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13654 | Subs: 6

Like, has a single one of you noticed that I proven on the previous page that JT still has more range than the Elefant (or ISU 152, inmobile KV2), aka more than 70?!? Smh...


You sure?

Have you made 200-300 shots with each to determine that?
Have you shot at an actual target?

There is this thing called scatter that allows shots to fall too far or too close.
11 Sep 2019, 21:23 PM
#57
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4802 | Subs: 14

Like, has a single one of you noticed that I proven on the previous page that JT still has more range than the Elefant (or ISU 152, inmobile KV2), aka more than 70?!? Smh...


it's the longer gun


jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2019, 21:09 PMKatitof


You sure?

Have you made 200-300 shots with each to determine that?
Have you shot at an actual target?

There is this thing called scatter that allows shots to fall too far or too close.


Acutally he is right. Somehow it did not got saved in the code. But in the hotfix (should be coming soon) it will get his 70 range as it stands in the patchnotes.


11 Sep 2019, 21:25 PM
#58
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3891







Acutally he is right. Somehow it did not got saved in the code. But in the hotfix (should be coming soon) it will get his 70 range as it stands in the patchnotes.


noooo let me abuse the falls some more
11 Sep 2019, 21:57 PM
#59
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6204 | Subs: 1


If it is in a position to be vulnerable to ram you deswrve to lose it. Its a balance component called "counter play" you see, a unit that has 450 front armour, 70 range and guaranteed pen against all enemies as well as a barrage that can fuck up static crews has to be killable some how. That somehow is by taking risks and exploiting its low mobility. It's not a balance issue. It's actually intended

Ram is not really a skill shot since it has guaranteed stun on impact which is provides enough time to kill super heavy tanks with off map. Ram stuns with or with out penetrating so there "vulnerable" in from any position.

I rammed and killed 2 elephants in game today.

11 Sep 2019, 22:33 PM
#60
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3088 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Sep 2019, 21:57 PMVipper

Ram is not really a skill shot since it has guaranteed stun on impact which is provides enough time to kill super heavy tanks with off map. Ram stuns with or with out penetrating so there "vulnerable" in from any position.

I rammed and killed 2 elephants in game today.


Vulnerable as in are able to get in there and suicide bomb you unchecked. 2jt shots and 1 of anything else is enough to kill a t34 so unless it was cloaked when driving straight at the JT there wasn't sufficient support to counter the risk the Soviet was placing in their attack. Alternatively the ram came from a flank which is also fair game.
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