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russian armor

Assault Guards into more doctrines!

30 Aug 2019, 22:19 PM
#1
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

(posting for the 3rd time already as no one cared before, I bet no one will this time but I give it a try)

Yes, you read it right, I just think that they should be a replacement for Shocks in some doctrines as it would make them used more often, so they see light and people see that they are actually pretty good, and they are! Just don't make them come in a Half Truck and boom! Another Elite unit and a bit more diversity, with them having 4 SVT rifles, thus being effective at Medium range and also at Close, especially with their 2 PPShs, but to make them somewhat different so people don't take them as a Shocks reskin without armour and not terminators on Vet 3, I suggest them to have 2 upgrades that open after Tier 3 is built:

1) Upgrade for 2 Guards type (as there are 3 types: Cons', Penals', and Guards') PTRS rifles instead these 2 PPShs with a passive Vet 2 ability to see vehicles in a Fog of War if they're standing still with a delay between moving and standing still (like they're preparing or smth) of like 1-2 seconds. 80 ammunition in total for this upgrade.

2) An upgrade to either give them these 3 Thompsons like they want to give them in the Lend Lease Doctrine right now (bad idea if you look at historical accuracy, an explanation later) and leave 1 PPSh so it will feel like that Rangers' Thompsons upgrade, but it will also give them the Conscripts' snare, and possibly camo in cover at Vet 3 so they would scale up better without being completely pointless to use against armour, but also not making them literally annihilate every infantry squad in sight. Same 80 ammunition cost.

It's just an idea I want to point out, maybe the Lend Lease version of them is going to be different or they think about what I suggested including their own thoughts and thoughts of other players, I do not know! I suggested - you speak out (I hope)!



Now to why the Thompson SMG is a bad idea for these Assault Guards.
It's more of historical reason than the balance reason, but I just wanted to point it out, as we, Russians, rarely used any weapontry of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and the United States of America besides the 1941 because of a surprise attack on the Germans and the retreats of the squads, leaving the factories and thus weapons to the Nazi 3rd Reich Germany, so we were desperate in getting anything we could use to fight, but once this problem was solved, as the same retreating one (I am talking about the order 227) we didn't really use anything from the West, mostly, and I mean 90% of what we had was ours.
In the West quality means something that would run forever, and considering how long it took the USA to make these Shermans and how many of those M3 Lees ("Братская могила для семярых"-"Brother grave for the seven" nickname for it in the USSR) as a stopgap we didn't want to use that anymore, considering how German tech was breaking down in 1941 because of dust as they had to go through HUGE territories, as for the Winter when even Soviet tech was freezing to inability of usage, and then mud in which the German tanks were always stuck, which brings us to the point that in the East quality means easy to repair and thus is in big numbers, especially well designed for an Attrition War of WW2, so we used Shermans as Tractors...really fucking shitty ones really, we only liked British tech, and mostly just the Churchill.
So besides 1941 we didn't really use West stuff, and all we really remember about it was tanks, not even taking into account the rifles and SMGs, we've got such a shitton of PPSh-41 and Mosin Nagants in the backyard that we could've fed the USA with them. So the Thompson change is just historically unaccurate and the PPSh-41 shall stay as it is.
30 Aug 2019, 22:20 PM
#2
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

The fucking history explanation's bigger than the idea lol
30 Aug 2019, 22:49 PM
#3
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1302

Having to purchase them with a halftrack is a deal breaker. The infantry is good when I've tried it but really don't want a bunch of halftracks.
30 Aug 2019, 23:00 PM
#4
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13780 | Subs: 7

They are in lend lease doctrine, they are using lend lease weapons now, there is no sens efor them to be in any other doctrine.

They are also poor mans shock troops and while improved by change, will remain a meme.
31 Aug 2019, 07:07 AM
#5
avatar of Mr. Someguy

Posts: 4492

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 23:00 PMKatitof
They are in lend lease doctrine, they are using lend lease weapons now, there is no sens efor them to be in any other doctrine.

They are also poor mans shock troops and while improved by change, will remain a meme.


Give them 6 Thompsons! Who's the meme now?! :hyper:
31 Aug 2019, 09:02 AM
#6
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 172

I agree halftrack needs to go.
31 Aug 2019, 09:53 AM
#7
avatar of Divisionario

Posts: 32

I think the same, I like the unit but it is frustrating that it forces you to acquire a half track to choose the unit
31 Aug 2019, 11:37 AM
#8
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

Having to purchase them with a halftrack is a deal breaker. The infantry is good when I've tried it but really don't want a bunch of halftracks.

Read carefully, because I didn't even say them to be with the Half Truck, I want them to be WITHOUT the Half Track.
31 Aug 2019, 11:43 AM
#9
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

jump backJump back to quoted post30 Aug 2019, 23:00 PMKatitof
They are in lend lease doctrine, they are using lend lease weapons now, there is no sens efor them to be in any other doctrine.

They are also poor mans shock troops and while improved by change, will remain a meme.

They are called Assault Guards, they have an icon somewhat close a Spetsnaz badge, and they could be used in other doctrines instead Shocks and Guards for a reason, they're somewhat in-between both and with upgrades that could be shown as they would be close to Shocks or usual Guards, they have good survivability and scale up pretty good, they're better than Penals at least, that's for sure, just so they won't be useless compared to Guards and Shocks I want them to have these 2 upgrades or somewhat close to them, they won't be a meme.

Also I gave a really good explanation of why the Lend Lease weapontry shouldn't be given to them, at least an upgrade for them could be done, as it looks like the USSR had a shitton of these Thompsons, when, in reality, we didn't.
31 Aug 2019, 11:44 AM
#10
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

pienso igual, me gusta la unidad pero es frustrante que te obligue a adquirir un semioruga para elegir la unidad

I am sorry I don't speak Spanish, I speak Russian and English, so use them or just tell me in my face to use a translator.
31 Aug 2019, 11:47 AM
#11
avatar of Divisionario

Posts: 32


I am sorry I don't speak Spanish, I speak Russian and English, so use them or just tell me in my face to use a translator.


edit!!!, sorry I was thinking while writing the comment and I responded in Spanish XD
31 Aug 2019, 11:48 AM
#12
avatar of Riley

Posts: 129




Now to why the Thompson SMG is a bad idea for these Assault Guards.
It's more of historical reason than the balance reason, but I just wanted to point it out, as we, Russians,


LOL. You were given a buff, and you say this is a bad idea.
31 Aug 2019, 11:49 AM
#13
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1495 | Subs: 3

In the current state? No thanks. Even in the current mod with three Thompson and three SVT-40s, they are worse than the Shock Troops: a bad grenade - its damage is completely random, in most cases it doesn’t even cause damage, first veteran sucks. HT is not needed, such a concept of units is disgusting, if a player wants to buy HT he will buy it separately.

Make an Assault Guard without HT with four Thompson and Bazooka alternatives.
31 Aug 2019, 11:49 AM
#14
avatar of Divisionario

Posts: 32

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 11:48 AMRiley


LOL. You were given a buff, and you say this is a bad idea.


at least he is impartial, not like others ...
31 Aug 2019, 11:54 AM
#15
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 11:48 AMRiley


LOL. You were given a buff, and you say this is a bad idea.

This is a really bad buff in a historical reason.
If we had them and we were using them but rarely, I wouldn't say a thing as same Elefants are existent in the game since like the start, but I care if we never used it and then make the unit use it just because of the name of the doctrine it's in.
31 Aug 2019, 12:01 PM
#16
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

In the current state? No thanks. Even in the current mod with three Thompson and three SVT-40s, they are worse than the Shock Troops: a bad grenade - its damage is completely random, in most cases it doesn’t even cause damage, first veteran sucks. HT is not needed, such a concept of units is disgusting, if a player wants to buy HT he will buy it separately.

Make an Assault Guard without HT with four Thompson and Bazooka alternatives.

I fucking said that HT shouldn't be tied to them, I said that in my post, why isn't anyone reading that part?!

And I have an idea in mind of them being worse than other 2, but also be able to have upgrades that would make them more useful in some situations where you need more Anti-Infantry or Anti-Tank capabilities, not like Guards being able to do both with maximum damage or Shocks that are literal 6 men Obers with Close Range capabilities.

So the unit would be used in the situations you need them fit a certain role, so they could be used differently, so it would bring more diversity into the Soviet playstyle and less Guards/Shocks spams.

AND NO FFS WE DIDN'T USE NEITHER THE ZOOKA OR THE THOMPSONS IN THE SOVIET ARMY WE HAD OUR OWN STUFF GOD DAMMIT.
WHY I SAID THAT THE SECOND UPGRADE WOULD GIVE THEM 3 THOMPSONS IS THAT IT WOULD BE MORE LOGICAL FOR THEM TO BE UPGRADED WITH THEM NOT JUST GIVEN STRAIGHT AWAY MY FUCKING GOD I'VE GIVEN A FULL EXPLANATION WHY WITH NORMAL LANGUAGE TRYING TO BE AS OFFICIAL AS POSSIBLE


Oh and yeah I agree about the Veterancy and Grenade.
31 Aug 2019, 12:09 PM
#17
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1495 | Subs: 3


I fucking said that HT shouldn't be tied to them, I said that in my post, why isn't anyone reading that part?!

And I have an idea in mind of them being worse than other 2, but also be able to have upgrades that would make them more useful in some situations where you need more Anti-Infantry or Anti-Tank capabilities, not like Guards being able to do both with maximum damage or Shocks that are literal 6 men Obers with Close Range capabilities.

So the unit would be used in the situations you need them fit a certain role, so they could be used differently, so it would bring more diversity into the Soviet playstyle and less Guards/Shocks spams.

AND NO FFS WE DIDN'T USE NEITHER THE ZOOKA OR THE THOMPSONS IN THE SOVIET ARMY WE HAD OUR OWN STUFF GOD DAMMIT.
WHY I SAID THAT THE SECOND UPGRADE WOULD GIVE THEM 3 THOMPSONS IS THAT IT WOULD BE MORE LOGICAL FOR THEM TO BE UPGRADED WITH THEM NOT JUST GIVEN STRAIGHT AWAY MY FUCKING GOD I'VE GIVEN A FULL EXPLANATION WHY WITH NORMAL LANGUAGE TRYING TO BE AS OFFICIAL AS POSSIBLE


This Assault Guard is tied to the Lend-Lease commander, therefore, to stay in the Lend-Lease theme and to be useful, Thompson and Bazooka is the best option, because both of these weapons were sent to the USSR and were even used:
31 Aug 2019, 12:13 PM
#18
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64



edit!!!, sorry I was thinking while writing the comment and I responded in Spanish XD

It's okay.
31 Aug 2019, 12:17 PM
#19
avatar of Sir Edgelord

Posts: 64

jump backJump back to quoted post31 Aug 2019, 12:09 PMCrecer13


This Assault Guard is tied to the Lend-Lease commander, therefore, to stay in the Lend-Lease theme and to be useful, Thompson and Bazooka is the best option, because both of these weapons were sent to the USSR and were even used:

Used. But I mentioned that it was all mostly 1941 and possibly the start of 1942, rarely in the Marines, but maybe I just don't know shit about Marines.
I mean, at least they could be upgraded with them, not just come with them right away? Sorta like I suggested, idk.

And we aren't talking just about the Lend Lease, I am talking about putting them instead of Shocks, and maybe Guards with several upgrades, in my version 2, that would improve their capabilities vs Infantry or Vehicles, and also have the 3rd weapon slot to make them further more useful and attract players into using them, it's just the idea and I am asking the community about it, not asking the community to change them only in the Lend Lease, even the title says that.
31 Aug 2019, 12:43 PM
#20
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1495 | Subs: 3


Used. But I mentioned that it was all mostly 1941 and possibly the start of 1942, rarely in the Marines, but maybe I just don't know shit about Marines.
I mean, at least they could be upgraded with them, not just come with them right away? Sorta like I suggested, idk.

And we aren't talking just about the Lend Lease, I am talking about putting them instead of Shocks, and maybe Guards with several upgrades, in my version 2, that would improve their capabilities vs Infantry or Vehicles, and also have the 3rd weapon slot to make them further more useful and attract players into using them, it's just the idea and I am asking the community about it, not asking the community to change them only in the Lend Lease, even the title says that.


Firstly, the photo shows Thompson at different dates from 1942 to 1945. Secondly, this is not a historical game. This is a game based on the Second World War: in one order the “conscripts” of 1941 and Katyusha ZiS-6 of 1941 together with the IS-2 of 1944.

And, No thanks, why replace the excellent Shock Troops with the mediocre Assault Guards. If it is valid to make them a unique unit of middle distance, between the Shock Troops and the Guard, and for this they just need the Thompsons (after all, they have good damage over the medium distance), can still absurd the replacement. Now there is no point in replacing.
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