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What the new balance patch got wrong?

22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PM
#1
avatar of VIGNASH

Posts: 42

Personally I dont think this patch needs to be super game changning since after all these years of patching, the game balance is in a pretty good place. If you know what u are doing, u have a decent chance of winning while playing any factions.

Getting to the patch notes:

Overall the changes are not that bad, but the patch has some really awkward ones.

Controversial/Unecessary changes:

1. Raketenwerfer 43

Range from 50 to 55.
Crew size from 4 to 5.
Camouflage ability now locks the unit in place unless revealed. Cannot move, but can rotate.
Requires veterancy 1 for camouflage.
Retreat function removed.

^ This removes the uniqueness out of the Rk43 and makes it just like another dull AT unit.



2. Schwerer Panzer Headquarters

Cost from 200MP/120 to 100/80; unlocks Obersoldaten and the doctrinal Hetzer; Obersoldaten upgrades locked behind Panzer Authorization.
Can now be upgraded with ‘Panzer Authorization’ for 100 manpower and 40 fuel. Unlocks Jagdpanzer IV, Panzer IV Ausf. J, and Panzer V Panther as well as the doctrinal Flakpanzer IV Ostwind. Also unlocks Obersoldaten weapon upgrades.
Flak gun disabled until the Panzer Authorization upgrade is purchased.
Panzer Authorization must be repurchased if the Panzer HQ is destroyed and is required for all heavy tank call-ins.

^ OKW's Panzer HQ and its upgrade is pretty pointless since you gotta do the full upgrade to get the upgrades on the Obersoldaten units and the non-upgrade hq will be only useful if the you go with hertzer doctorine. Moreover, panzer hq upgrade requirement for the heavy tank call in is not good since it punishes players too much and if you lose it is pretty much GG.




3. Kubelwagen

Health from 240 to 192
Received damage modifier of 0.8 added.
This will decrease repair times, without changing the durability of the unit (which is still 192/0.8=240 effective hitpoints).

^ basically, majority of the community wants the kubel to vet up faster since it dies out too early.



4. Tiger II (KT)

AOE distance from 1/2/3 to 0/1/4
AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.05 to 0.75/0.25/0.125
Scatter angle from 7.5 to 5.
Spearhead to veterancy 1, Combat Blitz to veterancy 3

^ Now if KT makes just one wrong move, it is pretty much fkd if the oppo has even one SU 85/ Jackson/ Firefly.



5. Churchill Mk.VII

Population from 16 to 18.
Grenade ability moved from veterancy 0 to veterancy 1.

^ At the given cost, churchill is seriously too good at soaking shots, like insane good. Either its health or preferablly its amrour gotta be reduced. OR, increase the cost to like 180 fuel.



6. Emplacements

All emplacements can now be torn down by Royal Engineers once they no longer serve their initial purpose, to free up population cap for other units. Note that resources will not be refunded.

Deconstruct Emplacement ability added to Royal Engineers
Ability does not refund any resource


^ Come on relic, this just PROMOTES MORE SIM CITY. Brit sim city players should have consequences for going full on emplacements in 3v3/ 4v4 matches.



7. Maxim

Nearby suppression radius from 13 to 15
Nearby suppression multiplier from 1 to 1.1

^ THis just promotes the return of MAXIS SPAM. tbh, maxism is good atm as a support role unit.

Well you guys agree right?

22 Aug 2019, 13:56 PM
#2
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

1. Raketenwerfer 43

Range from 50 to 55.
Crew size from 4 to 5.
Camouflage ability now locks the unit in place unless revealed. Cannot move, but can rotate.
Requires veterancy 1 for camouflage.
Retreat function removed.

^ This removes the uniqueness out of the Rk43 and makes it just like another dull AT unit.


soo let me get this straight... you want to BUFF THE RAKATENWERFER without removing its most cancerous aspects.... do you even play the allies? have you even used the rakatenwerfer in how its supposed to be used? (at least at the moment)

and although i dont agree with how the rakaten is used right now... reverting those changes youve mentioned is going to multiply the cancer by a huge margin... absolutely unacceptable

the solution here is to just make it a pak 38 and be done with it... we dont need stealthy retreating tank hunters...

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

2. Schwerer Panzer Headquarters

Cost from 200MP/120 to 100/80; unlocks Obersoldaten and the doctrinal Hetzer; Obersoldaten upgrades locked behind Panzer Authorization.
Can now be upgraded with ‘Panzer Authorization’ for 100 manpower and 40 fuel. Unlocks Jagdpanzer IV, Panzer IV Ausf. J, and Panzer V Panther as well as the doctrinal Flakpanzer IV Ostwind. Also unlocks Obersoldaten weapon upgrades.
Flak gun disabled until the Panzer Authorization upgrade is purchased.
Panzer Authorization must be repurchased if the Panzer HQ is destroyed and is required for all heavy tank call-ins.

^ OKW's Panzer HQ and its upgrade is pretty pointless since you gotta do the full upgrade to get the upgrades on the Obersoldaten units and the non-upgrade hq will be only useful if the you go with hertzer doctorine. Moreover, panzer hq upgrade requirement for the heavy tank call in is not good since it punishes players too much and if you lose it is pretty much GG.


how axis biased are you not to realize how broken the command panther was?... seriously you need to get yourself checked


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

3. Kubelwagen

Health from 240 to 192
Received damage modifier of 0.8 added.
This will decrease repair times, without changing the durability of the unit (which is still 192/0.8=240 effective hitpoints).

^ basically, majority of the community wants the kubel to vet up faster since it dies out too early.


yeah the kubel needs better vet imo...

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

4. Tiger II (KT)

AOE distance from 1/2/3 to 0/1/4
AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.05 to 0.75/0.25/0.125
Scatter angle from 7.5 to 5.
Spearhead to veterancy 1, Combat Blitz to veterancy 3

^ Now if KT makes just one wrong move, it is pretty much fkd if the oppo has even one SU 85/ Jackson/ Firefly.


if you dont screen your KT then you deserve to lose it... like seriously this thing can do alot of work in a teamgame if you just support it properly... with or without spearhead

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

5. Churchill Mk.VII

Population from 16 to 18.
Grenade ability moved from veterancy 0 to veterancy 1.

^ At the given cost, churchill is seriously too good at soaking shots, like insane good. Either its health or preferablly its amrour gotta be reduced. OR, increase the cost to like 180 fuel.


fair enough... but 180 fuel is retardedly expensive for it

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

6. Emplacements

All emplacements can now be torn down by Royal Engineers once they no longer serve their initial purpose, to free up population cap for other units. Note that resources will not be refunded.

Deconstruct Emplacement ability added to Royal Engineers
Ability does not refund any resource


^ Come on relic, this just PROMOTES MORE SIM CITY. Brit sim city players should have consequences for going full on emplacements in 3v3/ 4v4 matches.


to be honest... if u cant deal with sim city as OKW... you most likely suck... use the LEIG... use smoke and 3 volks... voila sim city gone... you can also use stuka zu fusses tanks etc... sim city at this point has been nerfed almost completely out of the game... complaining about it makes you look worse


jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 13:01 PMVIGNASH

7. Maxim

Nearby suppression radius from 13 to 15
Nearby suppression multiplier from 1 to 1.1

^ THis just promotes the return of MAXIS SPAM. tbh, maxism is good atm as a support role unit.

Well you guys agree right?



can we give the MG-42/MG-34 the stats of the maxim so axis players can finally shut up about maxim buffs?... seriously... opposing maxim buffs just highlights how biased you are...

and if youre dumb enough to think the maxim is "good atm"... i recommend seeing a doctor since cognitive dissonance can highlight an underlying condition with your psyche...



tldr;

all i see here is an axis crybaby with a serious case of bias... move along
22 Aug 2019, 14:11 PM
#3
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13691 | Subs: 7

1. Cheese or reliability of regular ATG, can't have both.

2. No more special snowflaking, every single faction needs top tank tech to get heavy call-ins out, OKW isn't exception nor should it be, don't put schwerer where you can't defend it.

3. Do you even play the game? It gets shared vet, it was never vetting faster then it does now and its very easy to vet it up.

4. Don't overextend then?

5. L2p, not all problems can be solved by singular panther.

6. L2P again, they get no resources back from doing so, they literally destroy their own menpower by doing so.

7. It actually discourages blobbing against maxims. You'd be aware of that if you had basic comprehension of stats.
22 Aug 2019, 14:21 PM
#4
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 14:11 PMKatitof

7. It actually discourages blobbing against maxims. You'd be aware of that if you had basic comprehension of stats.


actually kat he was opposing maxim buffs since he said it would lead to spam...

he doesnt realize that maxim spam was the crutch to the problem... the lack of good core infantry... which is close to being fixed this patch with the change of 7 man to T3... maybe a few cons and grens buffs and they can finally be good..

he also doesnt realize that MG-42/34 spam is far more difficult to deal than maxim spams since even a single volksgrenadier can flame and deathloop a maxim frontally even if its deployed... judging by his tone this fella is prolly one of those Amove volksgrenadier blobbers...
22 Aug 2019, 15:12 PM
#5
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1922

What is your OKW play-rate? 99%? :snfPeter:
22 Aug 2019, 15:13 PM
#6
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 340

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 14:21 PMgbem

he also doesnt realize that MG-42/34 spam is far more difficult to deal than maxim spams since even a single volksgrenadier can flame and deathloop a maxim frontally even if its deployed... judging by his tone this fella is prolly one of those Amove volksgrenadier blobbers...


This is just getting cliche. If you try it yourself -face rushing a maxim- you eat the dirt. Yet the maxim spam is still viable as hell.
22 Aug 2019, 15:20 PM
#7
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3162 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 15:13 PMJilet


This is just getting cliche. If you try it yourself -face rushing a maxim- you eat the dirt. Yet the maxim spam is still viable as hell.

Yoi will eat dirt, but not before you throw that flame nade.
22 Aug 2019, 15:58 PM
#8
avatar of Jilet

Posts: 340


Yoi will eat dirt, but not before you throw that flame nade.


It's a shame my Volks always hit the dirt before throwing it :/
22 Aug 2019, 16:02 PM
#9
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 580

Agree only with the reketen, in terms of AT and survivability its the worst, but what was making up for it was its camo at vet 0, with these changes it can no longer hunt whilst still being the worst AT gun in offensive performance and even with 5 man it will still get wiped more easily then other AT guns
22 Aug 2019, 16:09 PM
#10
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3162 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 15:58 PMJilet


It's a shame my Volks always hit the dirt before throwing it :/

You are an outlier then.
22 Aug 2019, 16:36 PM
#11
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 447

I really hate the dishonesty on some of these axis threads. You can come out of the closet now because everybody knows you are an okw main. At least change the title to What the new balance patch got wrong for okw.
22 Aug 2019, 16:52 PM
#12
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 132

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 16:02 PMAlphrum
Agree only with the reketen, in terms of AT and survivability its the worst, but what was making up for it was its camo at vet 0, with these changes it can no longer hunt whilst still being the worst AT gun in offensive performance and even with 5 man it will still get wiped more easily then other AT guns

You do realize it is the cheapest? Also there a couple of buffs to axis. I am amazed how those are left out of the conversation.
22 Aug 2019, 17:09 PM
#13
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 888 | Subs: 2

If the Rak cant wear the cloak of invisibility, can it really be called the Harry Potter gun anymore?

Of all the changes, this one worries me the most. So much of the OKW strat in 4v4 is based on cloaking. From scouting, sneak capping a VP late game, etc Now OKW will need a sniper. And that is much worse.
22 Aug 2019, 18:13 PM
#14
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 460

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 14:11 PMKatitof
1. Cheese or reliability of regular ATG, can't have both.

2. No more special snowflaking, every single faction needs top tank tech to get heavy call-ins out, OKW isn't exception nor should it be, don't put schwerer where you can't defend it.

3. Do you even play the game? It gets shared vet, it was never vetting faster then it does now and its very easy to vet it up.

4. Don't overextend then?

5. L2p, not all problems can be solved by singular panther.

6. L2P again, they get no resources back from doing so, they literally destroy their own menpower by doing so.

7. It actually discourages blobbing against maxims. You'd be aware of that if you had basic comprehension of stats.
mm I want raketen changes to get reverted i only want long range and mid range accuracy buff
22 Aug 2019, 18:31 PM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3162 | Subs: 1

mm I want raketen changes to get reverted i only want long range and mid range accuracy buff

So better, more relaxed reliable but still a cheesy hunter?
22 Aug 2019, 18:39 PM
#16
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1480

I always knew there were some people who enjoyed rak cheese. Just never realized there was as many as there are
22 Aug 2019, 18:57 PM
#17
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 480

I really don't like the intended changes on the Raketenwerfer. While the patch all in all adresses many good points, the Raketenwerfer will become very very dull.
I just lacked the survivability, what it lacked in range it made up for by camo. The bad penetration is a real myth. Against a Churchill, so one of the heaviest stock armor of Allies, its pen is almost on par with the Pak40 (usually about 5% less).
22 Aug 2019, 21:03 PM
#18
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

either the rakaten becomes a good AT gun OR a cheese gun... you cannot ask for both... which would be the equivalent of admitting bias

i have been pushing for the former... OKW needs a good AT gun since raks easily get wiped... and i hate using raks as cheese tools to hunt down enemy tanks... it just seems retarded
22 Aug 2019, 21:08 PM
#19
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Aug 2019, 15:13 PMJilet


This is just getting cliche. If you try it yourself -face rushing a maxim- you eat the dirt. Yet the maxim spam is still viable as hell.


if maxim spam is viable... then MG42 spam must be godlike :D but ive had trouble with neither of these builds soo the problem here isnt with the spam...
22 Aug 2019, 21:30 PM
#20
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 580


You do realize it is the cheapest? Also there a couple of buffs to axis. I am amazed how those are left out of the conversation.


Yeah, its the cheapest cuz its still the worst AT gun in the game, its only saving grace is the ability to cloak on the move.
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