Login

russian armor

M-20 sideskirts cost too much

13 Aug 2019, 19:23 PM
#1
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367

I think the bazooka should cost munitions and the sideskirts come free. There is no reason not to buy sideskirts every time, the bazooka is optional.
13 Aug 2019, 19:38 PM
#2
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1784

Thats actually a good point, the same was done for Greyhound. Tho when sideskirts are there from start, I would increase M20 fuel cost by 5 or 10
13 Aug 2019, 19:43 PM
#3
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367

No need since it is by far the worse of all light vehicles, besides vanilla half-tracks. The 222 has more ai damage and at damage. The saving grace are its mines. I don't think players will spam m20's.
13 Aug 2019, 19:49 PM
#4
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 2873

idk I think the 221 is the worst of all LV. But that's just me. The mines on this thing are stupid though. Immobilize shouldn't be a critical IMO. It's too punishing.

On topic though, I agree with aera. Give skirts, raise fuel price.
13 Aug 2019, 19:52 PM
#5
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1332

+1 to aerafield Idea.

can side skirts be standard, but the player is able to "upgrade" them to remove them? (for free ofc) This will give m20s some speed boost maybe?
My point is to let the player choose a better armored or a better mobile m20.
13 Aug 2019, 19:55 PM
#6
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367

The 221 is okws vehicle which is locked behind truck, not tech?
I think that is more of a cross between an ultra light and a medium.
13 Aug 2019, 20:05 PM
#7
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367

+1 to aerafield Idea.

can side skirts be standard, but the player is able to "upgrade" them to remove them? (for free ofc) This will give m20s some speed boost maybe?
My point is to let the player choose a better armored or a better mobile m20.


Without the armor it would only be fit for tier 0. The damage this vehicle does is fairly weak. I would rather sacrifice bazookas than sideskirts.
13 Aug 2019, 20:10 PM
#8
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1332



Without the armor it would only be fit for tier 0. The damage this vehicle does is fairly weak. I would rather sacrifice bazookas than sideskirts.

A T0 M20 sounds appealing to me, but sadly some other unit must be displaced, i think its fair to displace or remove T0 mortars if M20 takes its place
13 Aug 2019, 20:18 PM
#9
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367


A T0 M20 sounds appealing to me, but sadly some other unit must be displaced, i think its fair to displace or remove T0 mortars if M20 takes its place


That would be nice but I doubt something like that will happen. I just want to switch the cost of sideskirts with the free bazooka. I don't see a reason to raise the price if you have to purchase the bazooka. You will have to purchase the zook if you want at.
ddd
13 Aug 2019, 20:38 PM
#10
avatar of ddd

Posts: 425 | Subs: 1

M20 after rework is one of the best usf units, people buy one in 1v1 almost every game, why touch it at all? There are many garbage units to look at, m20 is not one of them.
13 Aug 2019, 20:48 PM
#11
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367

My idea is a nerf and a buff at the same time. If you want to save munitions you have a less safe unit. There is no choice at the moment because m20 without skirts is suicidal.
13 Aug 2019, 21:21 PM
#12
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 899 | Subs: 1

Thats actually a good point, the same was done for Greyhound. Tho when sideskirts are there from start, I would increase M20 fuel cost by 5 or 10
While I like the idea in concept, I feel like it would be an unneeded nerf.

I currently use the m20 as part of my standard build, and I never upgrade skirts. It just feels unnecessary because the point is that I should never really be putting my m20 in danger to begin with, and in a large number of situatuons, the m20 will die skirts or not. The end result there is that the m20 would be getting a mostly unnecessary upgrade for free, and have its timing/cost hit. EDIT: This is huge because the m20 has a very limited timing window combat wise as it is. Is free skirts worth getting rid of ~20% of the m20's window of peak combat effectiveness?

As for the suggestion about making skirts free and the zook require an upgrade, its something ive considered, and unfortunately I can only see that making the m20 awkward to use. The m20 crew wouldnt be able to upgrade their zook while in the m20, so then youd have to sit them outside of the m20 for some ~30 seconds (I guess you could reduce it to even 10 seconds? Though that does start to risk panic zooking) before you can put your m20 onto the field. Anyway, I like the idea, but in practice, it seems like it would end up being awkward.
13 Aug 2019, 21:59 PM
#13
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 367

Let the m20 crews pick up bazookas from racks without tech. Otherwise, 15 seconds sounds fair. Players could upgrade bazookas while repairing the m20.
14 Aug 2019, 02:42 AM
#15
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 359

Its not like the side skirts even do that much anyway
14 Aug 2019, 03:18 AM
#16
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2656 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 02:42 AMCODGUY
Its not like the side skirts even do that much anyway

I thought so as well once. The armour isn't the onky improvement though as it also increases HP. substantial durability increase with them combined which, for the price of the unit can certainly be formidable for harassment.
14 Aug 2019, 03:20 AM
#17
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 359


I thought so as well once. The armour isn't the onky improvement though as it also increases HP. substantial durability increase with them combined which, for the price of the unit can certainly be formidable for harassment.


It gets counted by any light vehicle besides a Kubelwagon. It gets snared in ome hit and can't 1v1 any mainline infantry unit as a result. I never...NEVER bother to build this unit.
14 Aug 2019, 07:05 AM
#18
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2539 | Subs: 1

I always wondered what would be the balance if instead of extra health the skirt would immune the M20 to engine damage. :D

But I agree with Jae here, even if I'm not skilled enough and need the extra given by the skirt, the skirt and bazooka mechanism is fine as it is.

----

Another solution would be the Skirt Upgrade also upgrading the M20 .50 round to armor piercing ones. Let's say as example that in a vacuum matchup between M20 and 222, the M20 is able to take between 50% and 60% of 222 health before dying. And of course remove the bazooka from the crew.
14 Aug 2019, 08:39 AM
#19
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 899 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Aug 2019, 07:05 AMEsxile
Another solution would be the Skirt Upgrade also upgrading the M20 .50 round to armor piercing ones. Let's say as example that in a vacuum matchup between M20 and 222, the M20 is able to take between 50% and 60% of 222 health before dying. And of course remove the bazooka from the crew.

With even a conservatively timed decrew, it easily does more than that.

On another note, I think my main point is that the m20's durability often doesn't matter. It's most effectively used (after its initial ~2 minute shock window) as infantry harassment on the sidelines (read: against lone capping squads), scouting, and minelaying - none of these jobs really require it to be durable in any sense. Its best defensive qualities are its excellent speed and its smoke, both of which reinforce its utility angle even more. Skirts do allow for slightly more aggressive play and can ease the repair burden slightly, but they're by no means necessary for it to shine in most of its roles. It's called a utility car, and it's one of the few vehicles in the game that I would say actually fulfills that role while not also being a generic "drive around wiping stuff" vehicle, owing to its limited shock window and poor performance against most other vehicles (being at the bottom of the food chain of the actual vehicles out there). It's a utility vehicle, and you're pushed to use it as one, basically.

Of course though, this is just my understanding of the unit. Players will use this unit differently, and if the general opinion seems to be that it needs a change regarding its skirts upgrade then that should speak for itself. That said, I don't quite get that impression right now.
14 Aug 2019, 09:29 AM
#20
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5276 | Subs: 1

Armour skirt make the unit very tough vs small arm fire so they are not really very expensive.

On the other hand imo it would a a far better design if they upgrade cost Fuel and manpower similar to 223 upgrade. They would make easier to better balance both the m20 and the m20 with skirts.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag -HOI-12Th ANGEL LELIEL
  • The British Forces flag Jove
uploaded by -HOI-PauL.a.D

Board Info

154 users are online: 6 members and 148 guests
ShadowLinkX37, VonIvan, SkysTheLimit, Mr. Someguy, aomsinzana, Heavy Sapper
144 posts in the last 24h
2255 posts in the last week
9259 posts in the last month
Registered members: 48375
Welcome our newest member, Brendac4b1
Most online: 805 users on 28 Oct 2018, 01:04 AM