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russian armor

IR Ht

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4 Aug 2019, 21:49 PM
#61
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3963


Except it doesn't.
I'm suggesting it works EXACTLY as now, but turned on/off with a muni deficit.

Also what happens if I'm playing okw (as in not the new ostheer commander) or want to play one of the ~8 other commanders? How do I get the map hax and the sturmtiger?

Also those commanders and the irht use different mechanics
well ok like that sound balanced enough just don't make it 10 munition x second
4 Aug 2019, 21:52 PM
#62
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3963



Does it for free? You have buy their half-track and then upgrade it, the 251 by itself is more expensive than the IRHT

What are you even arguing for at this point?
the half truck has weapon, vet, can be upgraded in other way, can reinforce and moved troops

with the upgrade it has mini map hack , FLAREs and invisibility

if u want the ir half truck to just have mini map hack nobody will use it, and just vet 1 the kubel

if u want to give it mini map hack like osther add either reinforce or timed infrared red ability (like now) with long cd so it can't be spammed
4 Aug 2019, 21:52 PM
#63
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1

well ok like that sound balanced enough just don't make it 10 munition x second

God no that would be too extreme for sure.

I think the Soviet one was % based so maybe like 10% decrease while active? Not substantial but enough that you won't want to leave it on all the time?
4 Aug 2019, 21:54 PM
#64
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1511

the half truck has weapon, vet, can be upgraded in other way, can reinforce and moved troops

with the upgrade it has mini map hack , FLAREs and invisibility


Yeah and it's not free. It's also on one doctrine not available every single game

Plenty of reasonable nerfs have been offered this thread, idk what you're so worried about
4 Aug 2019, 21:56 PM
#65
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 490

nobody is gonna buy a unit that to function u have to pay with pop cap, forward pay of 200 mp and 5 fuel and constant munition for worse soviet mortart flare


Popcap cost has the positive effect that the unit is harder to fit into the army build and therefore cancerous combination with artillery is minimized.
If people are willing to pay for it depends on the effectivity and play style, you really cannot deny it that generally.
I agree that a unit that costs resources should bring a constant bonus to your army. The half track costs a similar amount of resources as a normal mortar, so it must be more than just a "flare shooting machine". Smaller standard detection radius (minmap or ghost generation as it is now) and a flare ability could make it useful.

Also just nerfing the health pool would go a long way. This thing is attrociously stable. If the opponent reacts after the first shot, it usually gets out alive as it's just not worth diving your tank for a unit that costs 200 MP and 5 FU (you can even salvage the fuel back from the wreck of the old one if you can micro it). It would also enable counter play by artillery (maybe armor nerf necessary), then even the detection radius could be higher.
But at the moment if you park it behind a shot blocker it is safe there forever.
4 Aug 2019, 21:58 PM
#66
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3963



Yeah and it's not free. It's also on one doctrine not available every single game

Plenty of reasonable nerfs have been offered this thread, idk what you're so worried about
that people just nerf the unit to oblivion and be forgotten, like just adding the mini map hack and removing the current function, like that it becomes useless as it's a worse kubel

and yes if u read the thread people have suggested what i just wrote
4 Aug 2019, 22:11 PM
#67
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1511


and yes if u read the thread people have suggested what i just wrote


Who cares? Most of the ideas were reasonable, and most people seem to just want SOME kind of change. Just make it less hands free as current version

4 Aug 2019, 22:40 PM
#68
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3963



Who cares? Most of the ideas were reasonable, and most people seem to just want SOME kind of change. Just make it less hands free as current version

yes obv i just hope people don't rush on the dumbest idea
5 Aug 2019, 01:53 AM
#69
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2690


You shouldn't require vet to make a unit usable.
I'd sooner take away retreat, and make it's camo ambush camo that doesn't allow it to move but increases its range and accuracy attacking out of camo.

I like that.

I still think IRHT should just be changed to have the same detection radius but detect only on the minimap, that way it still provides really useful intel (especially for costing next to nothing) but at least this way you have to have half a brain to use it. And it should get one shot by AT seeing as it just works through walls and stuff anyway (and again it's dirt cheap).
5 Aug 2019, 05:37 AM
#70
avatar of Unit G17

Posts: 110

Since the infrared detection is bugged, how about changing it to a timed sweeping focus sight ability (with reduced range and angle compared to IR detection) that costs munitions (when used it would also reveal the location of the IR ht)? Basicly a walking recon plane.
Or would it be unbalanced despite the nerfs as now it would enable support strikes to be launched?
5 Aug 2019, 15:40 PM
#71
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1

Since the infrared detection is bugged, how about changing it to a timed sweeping focus sight ability (with reduced range and angle compared to IR detection) that costs munitions (when used it would also reveal the location of the IR ht)? Basicly a walking recon plane.
Or would it be unbalanced despite the nerfs as now it would enable support strikes to be launched?

Problem with proper recon is that it makes things like arty even stronger,especially in team games.

I wonder if it could have vet (passive with a bit larger radius than officers?) and earn different sweeps that cost munitions for a timed sweep. Kind of a pak howi of recon
5 Aug 2019, 15:51 PM
#72
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143

IRHT should be deleted from the game. Relic either can't or won't fix it and it gets banned in any tournament worth anything.
5 Aug 2019, 16:38 PM
#73
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1511

IRHT should be deleted from the game. Relic either can't or won't fix it and it gets banned in any tournament worth anything.


That's only because it's bugged and sometimes permanently reveals units on minimap, even when they leave the detection range
5 Aug 2019, 18:19 PM
#74
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143



That's only because it's bugged and sometimes permanently reveals units on minimap, even when they leave the detection range


Yes which is why it should be deleted from the game.
5 Aug 2019, 18:22 PM
#75
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3211 | Subs: 1



Yes which is why it should be deleted from the game.

NO don't fix the bug just remove the unit.
The zis sometimes freezes. What will Soviet do without an AT gun? Or what about the mortar glitches? T2 Wil be pretty empty with only the maxim.
Or MAYBE we try and fix bugs instead of the absolutely awful idea of removing the unit eh?
5 Aug 2019, 18:24 PM
#76
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143


NO don't fix the bug just remove the unit.
The zis sometimes freezes. What will Soviet do without an AT gun? Or what about the mortar glitches? T2 Wil be pretty empty with only the maxim.
Or MAYBE we try and fix bugs instead of the absolutely awful idea of removing the unit eh?


So why hasn't it been fixed? Any Relic staff around to fix the unit? Why ban it in tournements, just fix the bug!!1!!1!.

There is no other analog to the IRHT in any other faction. Any ones that use to exist got removed or neutered. On top of it being a map hack, its also cheap as shit. The integrity of the game would be better if the unit was deleted.
5 Aug 2019, 18:36 PM
#77
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 449



So why hasn't it been fixed? Any Relic staff around to fix the unit? Why ban it in tournements, just fix the bug!!1!!1!.

There is no other analog to the IRHT in any other faction. Any ones that use to exist got removed or neutered. On top of it being a map hack, its also cheap as shit. The integrity of the game would be better if the unit was deleted.


At the very least it should cost more than the USF Ambulance lmao

Im generally opposed to deleting or nerfing units to hell, but the glitches associated with this unit are pretty severe and its 200 fucking manpower 5 fuel for constant recon.

Make it 250 MP and 10 fuel at the very least, make this thing actually cost something. It's not like it eats up popcap.
5 Aug 2019, 18:41 PM
#78
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 490



So why hasn't it been fixed? Any Relic staff around to fix the unit? Why ban it in tournements, just fix the bug!!1!!1!.

There is no other analog to the IRHT in any other faction. Any ones that use to exist got removed or neutered. On top of it being a map hack, its also cheap as shit. The integrity of the game would be better if the unit was deleted.

You've never given an argument why the unit is beyong fixable beside "there's no analogue". There's also no real analogue for the Brummbär, the 222, the 251, Sturmpioneers etc etc. Should they all be removed now?


NO don't fix the bug just remove the unit.
The zis sometimes freezes. What will Soviet do without an AT gun? Or what about the mortar glitches? T2 Wil be pretty empty with only the maxim.
Or MAYBE we try and fix bugs instead of the absolutely awful idea of removing the unit eh?

Although I generally agree, that is a pretty wrong analogy. ZiS gun bug will always be a disadvantage for the owner. IR-HT bug will always be an advantage for the owner.

5 Aug 2019, 18:53 PM
#79
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 143


You've never given an argument why the unit is beyong fixable beside "there's no analogue". There's also no real analogue for the Brummbär, the 222, the 251, Sturmpioneers etc etc. Should they all be removed now?


Although I generally agree, that is a pretty wrong analogy. ZiS gun bug will always be a disadvantage for the owner. IR-HT bug will always be an advantage for the owner.



Are those units bugged forever? And if they are, is it as gamebreaking as IRHT? If yes, then maybe they should be removed.

But we all know those units are fine and in no way break the game. IRHT does. Sight/scouting/recon are huge mechanics of this game, even bigger than a lot of other RTS on the market. IRHT just tosses all that out the window and maphacks the other team. Also, OKW doesnt even need a make up unit, they have every tool a faction could need and then some. I appreciate you wanting to further discussion but honestly it isnt warranted for this unit. It's broken in a big way. Papa lelic, pls delet.
5 Aug 2019, 19:12 PM
#80
avatar of Grim

Posts: 754

I think units and abilities that require zero micro or even a simple few clicks to utilise need to be changed.

The IRHT is a huge pain in team games as for a minimal price it provides a huge and unrelenting information advantage to the axis team.

Even if you push and destroy it they can build another one for likely cheaper than the manpower/fuel you lost in destroying it a lot of the time.

Counter battery on the Lefh (off topic I know) is a similar issue. Absolutely no micro tax after one click.
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