Login

russian armor

Soviet Lendlease rework

5 Aug 2019, 20:47 PM
#21
avatar of JZuna

Posts: 130

In my opinion the Lend-Lease doesnt require an extensive rework everything but the assault guards works, so just change that.

Starting with the m5 call in why do we still have that, its a stock unit in a tier you cant skip so either remove it or change it with say the USF M3 Halftrack from mech company it can reinforce and I believe it comes with heal crates that would allow soviets to stay on the field after pushing an opponent off the map but, dont make it call in attach it to tier 3.

As for Assault guards make them 2cp and give them an upgrade too replace the rifles with thompsons they got what weapons, 2 ppsh 4 SVT? not really sure, make them close quarter specialist with 2ppsh and 4 Thompson upgrade if 2CP is too good for this make them 3CP.

So this would be a bundle of 2 units in one m3 in tech and Assault guard call in, or remove one of the other abilities for the m3, or simply remove m5 call in and leave assault guards.

The idea of removing conscript repair for the industry doc repair bunker would just push players towards the already popular T1 opening, but it would make it better for teamgames.

Some have asked for the elite Bazookas with the thompson I would stay away from anti everything squads, a second upgrade with 2 elite bazookas and ambush camo instead of thompsons, and maybe the USF cheap light AT mines too slow down vehicles, since infantry wont detonate them you could catch vehicles off guard, as for snares that's what conscripts or ptrs penals are for.
aaa
5 Aug 2019, 21:01 PM
#22
avatar of aaa

Posts: 1470

What about this trash-tank? It was released in time of p4s meta and non viable t4.

Also m5 in this doc is a waste of spot
5 Aug 2019, 21:25 PM
#23
avatar of JZuna

Posts: 130

I believe the unit is fine it has higher rate of fire, good speed and reasonable penetration, but if everyone agrees too a buff maybe vet1 AP rounds like what the jackson has, this would give it a late game punch but dont rely only on the m4c sherman and support it with AT guns and SU-85.
5 Aug 2019, 22:44 PM
#24
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2730 | Subs: 2

Soviet Churchill would be nice and interesting to see, Valentine not so much for me at least. UC as well, maybe in the spot of the assault guards or something.

But the Churchill definitely, maybe even as a replacement to the Sherman I'd say, or just do like Armoured Assault and have a heavy with a premium medium.

18 Dec 2019, 06:39 AM
#25
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 271

Im here to talk about this commander again. It feels like a massive rework is needed.
Here are my suggestions for this commander

1 0cp m4c sherman ( possible accuracy buff to HVAP rounds so if it takes more reload time they don't miss at least)


2. 2 cp 50 cal mg air drop ( 6 men are okay because of more RA while retreating to 50 cal. Or we can add a call in and change tge unit size to 5 like in 120mm mortar.


3. 2cp Guards assault infantry without HT.. ( if HT is a must give incentives. Like a cheaper AA upgrade or healing while AA upgraded just for this halftrack. Because its a doctrinal unit. Must be different from the stock roster and not same) 2cp is right because falls are also at 2cp at this patch ad well shocks. Only unfortunate unit is airborne guards at 3cp.

Also trip wires ability is a waste of an ability on such squad. It would serve better to give a better grenade like the pineapple and at vet 1 can camouflage. Also add smoke grenade because it is an assault squad. This doesn't replace shocks because shocks are not in this doctrine.


4. 4cp Supply drop like Luftwaffe supply drop in which we can choose what to drop. Current model of converting munitions to fuel is quite risky as axis naturally field a lot of AA in the game and plane flies from axis base.


5. 3 cp P47 smoke shells.(soviets have no smoke ability in the entire game. Like not even a single ability. Must make sense they ask Americans to drop smoke for them.XD)



P. S I Believe ny suggestions don't make this commander OP but actually playable and useful instead of being a sorry state of affairs in the current scenario.
18 Dec 2019, 07:25 AM
#26
avatar of Maret

Posts: 611





The recent times i very often used lend-lease in 2vs2 - in open, wide maps it's very good commander. M4c like small Jackson (when you use super shells). M4c when you build 2 or 3, becomes very potent combo, in-fact, i find that they bette than su-85 due high mobility and smoke chargers (but it need some micro, because tank always stop when fire smoke shells). HT with guards good as early replace of T-70. Against Wermacht and OKW medical oppening it's very good choice.

Fuel drop very good - Axis very rare have build early AA.
In fact - HT with assault guards is good combo (i always call-in them before T3, than upgrade to quad and 1 fuel drop fully restore your fuel balance), but assault guards need some rework. They need special abilities to reflect their mechanized identity - repair for vehicle and boost to movement like pgrens will be very good for them (instead useless flare mine).
All groups with lend-lease armor had more "technical" knowledges than regular regiments. While USF have crews, soviet version of M4c could get self-repair (like in t-34/85 doctrine). Commander very muni-strave (fuel drops, mg for shermans, smoke from shermans) and cons also have repair, it will not become problem.
Paradropped DSHK will be very good change, because in-fact, you very rare need it. AA HT fully overlapped his role and do job better. DSHK good only when in building, while in open-air it's become very baby-sitting unit.

18 Dec 2019, 07:59 AM
#27
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 271

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Dec 2019, 07:25 AMMaret


The recent times i very often used lend-lease in 2vs2 - in open, wide maps it's very good commander. M4c like small Jackson (when you use super shells). M4c when you build 2 or 3, becomes very potent combo, in-fact, i find that they bette than su-85 due high mobility and smoke chargers (but it need some micro, because tank always stop when fire smoke shells). HT with guards good as early replace of T-70. Against Wermacht and OKW medical oppening it's very good choice.

Fuel drop very good - Axis very rare have build early AA.
In fact - HT with assault guards is good combo (i always call-in them before T3, than upgrade to quad and 1 fuel drop fully restore your fuel balance), but assault guards need some rework. They need special abilities to reflect their mechanized identity - repair for vehicle and boost to movement like pgrens will be very good for them (instead useless flare mine).
All groups with lend-lease armor had more "technical" knowledges than regular regiments. While USF have crews, soviet version of M4c could get self-repair (like in t-34/85 doctrine). Commander very muni-strave (fuel drops, mg for shermans, smoke from shermans) and cons also have repair, it will not become problem.
Paradropped DSHK will be very good change, because in-fact, you very rare need it. AA HT fully overlapped his role and do job better. DSHK good only when in building, while in open-air it's become very baby-sitting unit.



What if my guards get killed in late game? I get to call another halftrack just for another squad?

Dhska is already present in a couple of commanders. 50 cal will be a nice change.
18 Dec 2019, 08:13 AM
#28
avatar of Maret

Posts: 611



What if my guards get killed in late game? I get to call another halftrack just for another squad?

Dhska is already present in a couple of commanders. 50 cal will be a nice change.


Right now they cost is 270MP (240 is cost of HT). If they will become call-in infantry, i think they cost will increase accordingly, but...do you need "2-nd sort" shocks?
Another possible option - HT call-in without guards, but have additional ability to create crates with thompsons and grenades. But this grade lock "hoora" for cons and ptrs for penals.
And again - we are at least should consider historical aspect, .50 cal and thompsons has very, very narrow usage in EF in infantry usage. In 2-nd half of 1943 all lend-lease vehicle went in USSR without thompsons and personal crew weapon. Soviets have their own smg's and get lend-lease infantry weapon with unique ammo, not good for logistic. Lend-lease is always about armor, planes and supplies, but not infantry weapon.
This doctrine is more about armor and mechanized aspects of war (closer to technical advantage doctrine, but with lend-lease "hue"). Call-in HT could go in par with repair stations or something, that reflect armor and tanks.

18 Dec 2019, 10:37 AM
#29
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 528

My design....
0cp M4C,give some change,same for 76MM Sherman
0cp allow build .50 at T0,unlock after build any 2 HQ,or 2cp call in
2cp Airborne Guards,call in,default weapon 6xSVT,upgrade same as USF Airborne,can upgrade 4x Thompson or 2x1919LMG or 2x Airborne Bazooka
4cp 100 ammo for 30 fuel airdrop ,not change
9cp call in Presist,same as USF
18 Dec 2019, 10:51 AM
#30
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 271

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Dec 2019, 08:13 AMMaret


Right now they cost is 270MP (240 is cost of HT). If they will become call-in infantry, i think they cost will increase accordingly, but...do you need "2-nd sort" shocks?
Another possible option - HT call-in without guards, but have additional ability to create crates with thompsons and grenades. But this grade lock "hoora" for cons and ptrs for penals.
And again - we are at least should consider historical aspect, .50 cal and thompsons has very, very narrow usage in EF in infantry usage. In 2-nd half of 1943 all lend-lease vehicle went in USSR without thompsons and personal crew weapon. Soviets have their own smg's and get lend-lease infantry weapon with unique ammo, not good for logistic. Lend-lease is always about armor, planes and supplies, but not infantry weapon.
This doctrine is more about armor and mechanized aspects of war (closer to technical advantage doctrine, but with lend-lease "hue"). Call-in HT could go in par with repair stations or something, that reflect armor and tanks.



In this game not everything follows historical accuracy.

Yes it is okay if they increase the cost without HT because this means i can actually field more than 1 squad.
As for like shocks. Yes and no. Yes because assault role. But no cuz they have Thompsons and no armor. Also airborne guards exist with ppsh. Shocks are safe. They won't be same. Just another unit with similar roles.

We can make this mechanised focus too but depends on community and balance team.
18 Dec 2019, 17:40 PM
#31
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

Lend Lease is my favourite Soviet commander now. Every ability is useful.
18 Dec 2019, 21:20 PM
#32
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2413 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Aug 2019, 21:01 PMaaa

Also m5 in this doc is a waste of spot


I disagree, the assault guards that come with it are actually worth a damn now
18 Dec 2019, 22:30 PM
#33
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 765

I just wish they had given assault guards the regular guard 0.97 RA instead of 100% RA.

There's some other weird things about the unit too, like the squad not taking up any population (the soldiers inside the squad still do, but the squad itself has a population value of 0).

The Halftrack being used by the call-in is also an entirely separate ebps, which makes me wonder if they couldn't like, I don't know, add some extra utility or abilities to it, like the repair aura from the one Ardennes campaign mission or some sort of healing or something other than the stock Maxson quadmount.

The rest of the doctrine is actually quite fine imo, it's just relatively lackluster in the current heavy tank dominated meta. The 76mm Sherman itself is actually very good... Of all the units that need work in the Soviet roster or any roster for that matter it is an odd unit to single out considering its very high ROF with normal rounds and very good penetration (and better accuracy at cost of reload) on the selectable APCR rounds.

If I had to make any nitpick at all I'd honestly consider it pretty cool if regular guards were added in as well, since Sherman tanks were specifically used by guards armored units, but the assault guards already fulfil that role even if limited in availability by the halftrack they are bundled with.

On the note of the assault guards, it would also be really nice if the balance team could change the name of the unit ingame to match them being a distinct unit from regular guards. Right now they are still called "Guards Rifle Infantry" or whatever, same as regular guards. I would prefer they specifically be called "Guards Assault Troops" or something.
19 Dec 2019, 00:18 AM
#34
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 2636

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Dec 2019, 17:40 PMLago
Lend Lease is my favourite Soviet commander now. Every ability is useful.


Dshka & M5 Ass Guards combo in the mid game is nasty.
19 Dec 2019, 03:34 AM
#35
avatar of Acidfreak

Posts: 271



Dshka & M5 Ass Guards combo in the mid game is nasty.
but you can only get one squad. Because you can't field more than 1 HT because it costs 30 fuel everytime. Also this squad has no useful ability. It has trip wires. We already have that on the stock soviet infantry (conscripts).

Dhska replaced with 50 cal will go with the lend lease theme. Dshka was a soviet weapon.
19 Dec 2019, 04:06 AM
#36
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2413 | Subs: 1

You should be able to build assault guards from the HQ after t3 or t4 is built. And you should have to call in at least one of the HTs w/guards before you do
19 Dec 2019, 08:28 AM
#37
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

but you can only get one squad. Because you can't field more than 1 HT because it costs 30 fuel everytime. Also this squad has no useful ability. It has trip wires. We already have that on the stock soviet infantry (conscripts).

Dhska replaced with 50 cal will go with the lend lease theme. Dshka was a soviet weapon.


There are two things that makes the halftrack bundle that good.
The first is timing: 3 CP is much earlier than SOV would usually get a Meat Chopper.

The second is the Assault Guards.

Yes, this squad doesn't have much by way of abilities, but nor do Rangers.

After you subtract the halftrack, Assault Guards have three Thompsons and three SVTs for 270 manpower and zero munitions. That's a huge amount of mid-to-close range firepower for less than a Cav Rifle squad.

If you make them individually buildable, you make them spammable. If you make them spammable, they get spammed. If they get spammed, they get nerfed.
19 Dec 2019, 08:42 AM
#38
avatar of Maret

Posts: 611

AssGuards just need some little rework - repair ability and boost to movement when vehcile near (like pgren) instead flare mine and it will be more than enough for 510 MP price combo.
19 Dec 2019, 09:01 AM
#39
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2019, 08:28 AMLago


There are two things that makes the halftrack bundle that good.
The first is timing: 3 CP is much earlier than SOV would usually get a Meat Chopper.

The second is the Assault Guards.

Yes, this squad doesn't have much by way of abilities, but nor do Rangers.

After you subtract the halftrack, Assault Guards have three Thompsons and three SVTs for 270 manpower and zero munitions. That's a huge amount of mid-to-close range firepower for less than a Cav Rifle squad.

If you make them individually buildable, you make them spammable. If you make them spammable, they get spammed. If they get spammed, they get nerfed.


Extremely dubious logic: Rangers and Paratroopers are available on 3CP without any ridiculous restrictions. They have M1 carbines that are good at close-medium range with self-healing, Rangers can buy Thomson and take Bazooka. I often don’t even buy any weapons for the Paratroopers because they are good without them. We have Shock Troops which are available on 2 CPUs and which are better than the Assault Guards without any ridiculous restrictions. The Assault Guard is simply a miserable unit design. HT should be separate, infantry separately. About a theoretical 270mp value - bullshit. The Assault Guard costs 570 + 30. Do you want two squads? Please pay a ton of MP and 60 fuel that will throw you away from the T3 / T4 stand and get another unnecessary HT.

Assault Guard must be rework, definitely HT should leave. further determine the CP - if you leave 3 CP, then the Guard should receive self-healing, revise the cost without HT. To revise the weapon whether to get Thompson as the main weapon or for a purchase, to use alternative weapons: buy only Thompson or only Bazooka.
19 Dec 2019, 10:06 AM
#40
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3217

The Assault Guard costs 570 + 30.


And there is the proof that you haven't even played the new Lend Lease.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest
UTT2 Main Event

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Ostheer flag T.R. 6 squads, 4 maxim 2 engies
  • U.S. Forces flag °NOSMarkov.-
uploaded by KahootKing

Board Info

102 users are online: 2 members and 100 guests
CookiezNcreem, Gravemouth
57 posts in the last 24h
921 posts in the last week
4593 posts in the last month
Registered members: 22748
Welcome our newest member, 7andrewe6123re5
Most online: 1221 users on 25 Feb 2020, 12:03 PM