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russian armor

Soviet Lendlease rework

2 Aug 2019, 08:54 AM
#1
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 119 | Subs: 2

I think this commander is a lot of wasted potential right now and it wouldn't suprise me if a lot of people agreed. That is why I propose a rework, tell me what you think.

CP 0: M4C Sherman

Stays the same, the focus point of this commander and a nice versatile tank.
Maybe could use a slight pen buff to pen on HVAP rounds

CP 2: DsHK or .50MG (would be more thematic) Paradrop

Paradrop costs 125 manpower and 50 munitions

CP 2: Bren carrier

same price and abilities as the UK one.

The Bren carrier would be better fit then the M3 Halftrack IMO. You can already build the halftrack and the assault guards are very useless. USSR used high numbers of Bren carriers

CP 3: repair station

Same one from soviet industrial commander. Since this is not a particularly con focused commander I figure these repair stations bring some nice variety to this commander and Soviet roster in general.

CP 6: P47 strafing run (same one from USF tactical support commander)
USSR pilots like the "jug'' a lot from what I have heard.

2 Aug 2019, 09:22 AM
#2
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1550 | Subs: 3

M2HB - was delivered to the USSR in the infantry version in a small number of about a hundred pieces. Almost all of them were AA machine gun on the tank.

Bren carrier doesn't make sense - M3 Scout car is already there and it performs the same function. It is better to replace the Guard Mechanized Group with a Guard with a Land-Lease weapon or four Thompson or two Bazookas. on 3 CP - as a Ragers analogue.


P47 was not used for ground support in the USSR, it was used as a high-altitude air defense fighter.

Just as at the expense of the fact that the USSR Lend-Lease Sherman would use US mechanics, the crew may be leaving the tank and they will have Thompsons. After all, American tanks were equipped with full equipment for the tank crew
2 Aug 2019, 10:16 AM
#3
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 97

Not a good rework and not just for reasons of historical accuracy.

P-47 strafe is nearly useless, certainly not worth its cost.

Conscript Repairs is a lot more versatile than the Repair Station.

Bren Carrier overlaps stock M3 scout car. It's not an improvement. I'd prefer the Assault Group - Assault Guards plus AA halftrack is a pretty good combo IMO.

Maybe replace the Supply Drop with a decent air attack (MAYBE).
3 Aug 2019, 00:35 AM
#4
avatar of 13greed47

Posts: 53

50 cal would be great finally i wouldnt need to rely on crapxim. bren carrier is kinda just clown car with flame engie 2.0 so no need for this. could the halftrack be the real usf halftrack the one from the infantry cav commander it can drop medic crate (maybe keep assault guard even tho i find them crappy). straffing run is a no since its cost too much for not a big value
3 Aug 2019, 02:41 AM
#5
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817


Conscript Repairs is a lot more versitle than the Repair Station.


It only works when you build conscripts -_-
3 Aug 2019, 05:36 AM
#6
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 97

In my opinion (having just played a game using the Lend-Lease commander), the item that needs fixing is the Assault Guards unit itself.

Their equipment should reflect their role as an elite assault unit but, it doesn't. The frag grenade is good but, the Vet1 trip flares are wasted on this sort of unit. The Trip Flares should be replaced with something that enhances the unit's assault capabilities.

At the risk of being accused of making them "too much" like another unit, I would suggest Oorah or AT Grenades should be their veteran ability. They would also benefit from a stock smoke grenade, even if it makes them very similar to Shock Troops (it's not like you have both units in the roster of this commander).

Elite units should have elite abilities but, the Ass Guards don't. Fix that and you fix a lot of what's wrong with this commander.
3 Aug 2019, 09:21 AM
#7
avatar of blancat

Posts: 741

6 man M2HB? NO

bren carrier -> no reason to give it, M3(USF version) or stuart will be more fit

Add HVAP to M4c -> agree

repair station -> not bad

strafing run -> Man....all the strafing run in this game is trash...

fuel drop is more useful than this





3 Aug 2019, 09:24 AM
#8
avatar of RollingStone

Posts: 140

I am in for swapping conscripts repairs to quad tommy-guns for cons and penals alike.
All other abilities are good, IMO.
5 Aug 2019, 03:35 AM
#9
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 708

In my opinion (having just played a game using the Lend-Lease commander), the item that needs fixing is the Assault Guards unit itself.

Their equipment should reflect their role as an elite assault unit but, it doesn't. The frag grenade is good but, the Vet1 trip flares are wasted on this sort of unit. The Trip Flares should be replaced with something that enhances the unit's assault capabilities.

At the risk of being accused of making them "too much" like another unit, I would suggest Oorah or AT Grenades should be their veteran ability. They would also benefit from a stock smoke grenade, even if it makes them very similar to Shock Troops (it's not like you have both units in the roster of this commander).

Elite units should have elite abilities but, the Ass Guards don't. Fix that and you fix a lot of what's wrong with this commander.


I agree with this. I think Thompsons would also go a long way towards making this unit more unique and theme-consistent. Maybe even a BAR (though I am unsure these were seriously used in large quantities by the Red Army. I know, for example, that bazookas were not widely used, despite the continued depiction of their use elsewhere.)
5 Aug 2019, 03:44 AM
#10
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 487

I think……
0cp ,M4C
0cp,air drop medical support,same as Ost
1or2 cp ,call in a .50HMG squad
2or3 cp,AssaultGuards,default weapon is 6xSVT,can upgrade 4xThompson or 2xAirborne Bazooka
2cp,consript get repair ability,and engineer can build tank trap
5 Aug 2019, 04:07 AM
#11
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817

6 man M2HB? NO



You can already do this with the airbourne commander if your playing 2v2, .50 cal is a relatively vulnerable mg if you get deathlooped. Cons or Engies crewing it do have much better RA 1.07/1 compared to 1.25 normal weapons crews though. Should be tried for sure in testing.
5 Aug 2019, 17:43 PM
#12
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 708




You can already do this with the airbourne commander if your playing 2v2, .50 cal is a relatively vulnerable mg if you get deathlooped. Cons or Engies crewing it do have much better RA 1.07/1 compared to 1.25 normal weapons crews though. Should be tried for sure in testing.


Pretty sure all MG and Mortar crew members get the 1.25 RA automatically, regardless of what model they are or what squad they were in. It is worth noting, however, that the M2HB MG squad (no matter who crews it) is more vulnerable retreating than any squad in the game due to a higher retreat received accuracy (afaik the only squad in the game with it).
5 Aug 2019, 17:55 PM
#13
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 324

I think the Universal Carrier would be an interesting addition to the Soviet faction like this:
0cp, 210mp, 10fu call-in or built at HQ. Can be upgraded with Vickers for Suppressing Fire. Vet 2 reduces Suppressing Fire cost, or repair speed if not upgraded. Self-heal removed.

Soviet commanders have very few beginning-of-game abilities. A UC adds another dimension to the T1 vs. T2 choice- it can provide either transportation or suppression, one of which you would normally have to sacrifice.
5 Aug 2019, 18:04 PM
#14
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2728 | Subs: 2

This is a nice list of the lend-lease numbers and units available in CoH2 compiled by Planet Smasher, I won't copy it over since it's a long ass thing so here's the link: https://www.coh2.org/topic/81304/lend-lease-numbers

Just a note here tho, it's just the American lend-lease, no British things are present but even if so, Churchill, UC and Valentine are all good and viable things that could be added from the British side. Supplies and infantry weapons are also another option.

And just a note here, there were never any "M4C" Shermans, only M4A2 75mm and 76mm (the one in this game) ones were sent to the Soviet Union since they were basically the M4A3 but fitted with diesel engines, I also think some were sent to Britain, not sure, so a change of name for the sake of historical accuracy would be nice.
5 Aug 2019, 18:11 PM
#15
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 708

This is a nice list of the lend-lease numbers and units available in CoH2 compiled by Planet Smasher, I won't copy it over since it's a long ass thing so here's the link: https://www.coh2.org/topic/81304/lend-lease-numbers

Just a note here tho, it's just the American lend-lease, no British things are present but even if so, Churchill, UC and Valentine are all good and viable things that could be added from the British side. Supplies and infantry weapons are also another option.

And just a note here, there were never any "M4C" Shermans, only M4A2 75mm and 76mm (the one in this game) ones were sent to the Soviet Union since they were basically the M4A3 but fitted with diesel engines, I also think some were sent to Britain, not sure, so a change of name for the sake of historical accuracy would be nice.


Something to keep in mind for those Bazooka numbers: https://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/08/lend-lease-impressions-bazooka.html


60 mm anti-tank rocket launcher

Proving grounds trials showed unsatisfactory results, specifically:
Low muzzle velocity (89 m/s).
Complex rocket design and sensitive detonator.
Unreliable function of the launcher at temperatures less than 10 degrees Celsius.
Fire is ineffective at a range of over 100 m due to an insufficiently flat trajectory and poor precision.
Low rate of fire.
Danger when firing the weapon while shouldered. Due to the rocket charge continuing to burn, it is possible to burn the shooter's hands and face.
Trials showed that the 60 mm American anti-tank rocket launcher cannot be accepted for use by the Acting Army, and further purchase is unreasonable.

3,000 rocket launchers were shipped in total, and only 4,260 rockets, or about one and a half rockets per launcher."


Edit: Although, tbh, giving assault guards a bazooka upgrade would be a cool flavor thing, and some pictures of them being used (albeit almost certainly staged propaganda photos) do exist. So meh.
5 Aug 2019, 18:27 PM
#16
avatar of Maret

Posts: 610

I think we could include in lend-lease some british armor, valentine or churchill and USF m4c

CP 0: M4C Sherman

CP 0: Churchill or call-in valentine (but i prefer churchill).

CP 3: repair station

Fuel drop still

Guards with thompsons (tankodesantniki), grenades regular and smoke. Get the same bonuses from near armor as pgrens with the same restrictions.


5 Aug 2019, 18:47 PM
#17
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2728 | Subs: 2



Something to keep in mind for those Bazooka numbers: https://tankarchives.blogspot.com/2017/08/lend-lease-impressions-bazooka.html



Edit: Although, tbh, giving assault guards a bazooka upgrade would be a cool flavor thing, and some pictures of them being used (albeit almost certainly staged propaganda photos) do exist. So meh.


Son of a bitch, those ungrateful Soviet bastards, I swear.

It was better than their AT rifle that couldn't penetrate anything above a light tank's armor for sure, or suicide charging against an enemy tank with AT grenades. But then again these are the Soviets we're talking about so I'm sure that a rocket projected weapon would be less preferred than running to your death in the name of the motherland.
5 Aug 2019, 19:23 PM
#18
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1550 | Subs: 3



Son of a bitch, those ungrateful Soviet bastards, I swear.

It was better than their AT rifle that couldn't penetrate anything above a light tank's armor for sure, or suicide charging against an enemy tank with AT grenades. But then again these are the Soviets we're talking about so I'm sure that a rocket projected weapon would be less preferred than running to your death in the name of the motherland.


Wrong, a cartridge with an armor-piercing incendiary bullet BS-41 with a ceramic-metal core (tungsten carbide) could penetrate 40 mm of armor at a distance of 300 meters, it would be enough to pierce the early Pz-3 with 30 mm frontal armor. The Panther was planned to be replaced with the Panther-2 because its 35-mm side armor could be shot through by an anti-tank rifel. But adding a side skirt was enough.

Another reason why Bazooka sucked was absolute insecurity, the battery that triggered the shot was constantly discharged, was vulnerable to moisture. Therefore, the M1 was upgraded to the M9, and the Germans made their own version without a battery.
5 Aug 2019, 19:27 PM
#19
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 817



Pretty sure all MG and Mortar crew members get the 1.25 RA automatically, regardless of what model they are or what squad they were in. It is worth noting, however, that the M2HB MG squad (no matter who crews it) is more vulnerable retreating than any squad in the game due to a higher retreat received accuracy (afaik the only squad in the game with it).


Lmao, The M2HB is the most hated Mg by the devs, when it came out it cost 35 mp to reinforce and the weapon exploded 1.5 tank shots or like 3 nades. Other weapons are 2.5 or 3 tank hits.

I would be interested to know if 1.25 is true, I was under the impression models keep their RA (ex cons merge), but Idk if weapons teams are different.
5 Aug 2019, 19:48 PM
#20
avatar of Maret

Posts: 610



Son of a bitch, those ungrateful Soviet bastards, I swear.

It was better than their AT rifle that couldn't penetrate anything above a light tank's armor for sure, or suicide charging against an enemy tank with AT grenades. But then again these are the Soviets we're talking about so I'm sure that a rocket projected weapon would be less preferred than running to your death in the name of the motherland.


As british forces too) When UKF got first bazookas in 1942 they send all of them on storages, because thought that effective distance on 200 yards in Africa quite...too near to soldier, if he want have any chances to survive.
Also soviets noted low accuracy on distances more than 50 meters, danger zone behind shooter, smoke after shooting showed positions, very unstable igniting of gun powder in low temperatures. After all of these, bazooka don't looks pretty effective, right?
And don't forget that these bazookas were first generation, not those bazookas that will be in use in 2-nd half of 1944 (M9A1).
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