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What do people think of Conscripts after the patch?

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2 Aug 2019, 22:41 PM
#141
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1

do sand bang too ?
im counting upgardes that comes with tech like lmgs and rifle nades, not thing they have from the start like faust and merge or oorah


So this is just arbitrary speculation

Because this example depends entirely on how much we'd reduce bp1 by to compensate. I really don't get what you're trying to get at

Conscripts are clearly UP, grens aren't
2 Aug 2019, 22:43 PM
#142
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4326



So this is just arbitrary speculation

Because this example depends entirely on how much we'd reduce bp1 by to compensate. I really don't get what you're trying to get at

Conscripts are clearly UP, grens aren't
yes they need buff after they nerf penals, i was simply saying that if u count side tech cost for one unit u should count it for another too
2 Aug 2019, 22:43 PM
#143
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341



The fun part is that for OH, teching is BF only and buildings are its "side tech". In order to get/use faust OH player MUST build either T1 or T2. Thats clearly a side tech concept.


really? WM can do it no techs required
2 Aug 2019, 22:43 PM
#144
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2309

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 22:43 PMgbem


really? WM can do it no techs required

Of course it can! Silly me.
Not a single tech required. What a surprise! //////////////////////s


And you get access to more units, not improving upon one unit. Far out your all thick.

OH pays SIDE TECH to get units... #AxisOP
What the heck are you complaining of then? Cons only pay a crappy side tech to enable a single skill.

Thats why factions have restrains, otherwise OH would just skip T1 and T2 to get Pz4+OstW and win every single time. But that implies your hands are tied to anything on wheels.

Conscripts side tech is basically the same, but with the extra advantage of not forcing you to get both upgrades if you dont want.
2 Aug 2019, 22:48 PM
#145
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1

yes they need buff after they nerf penals, i was simply saying that if u count side tech cost for one unit u should count it for another too


Okay but you're comparing apples to oranges and it's really just distracting from the topic
2 Aug 2019, 22:51 PM
#146
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 230

This thread has crash and burned. Cannot be bothered seriously.
2 Aug 2019, 22:52 PM
#147
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4326



Okay but you're comparing apples to oranges and it's really just distracting from the topic
no it was on topic he said to count the side tech cost for cons i said do the same for green and u see they are not that far off
2 Aug 2019, 22:57 PM
#148
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 2449 | Subs: 1

no it was on topic he said to count the side tech cost for cons i said do the same for green and u see they are not that far off


But you can't do the same for grens, they don't have side-techs.......

This is the entire point, conscript side-techs are for one thing on one unit only. Bp1 is for multiple things including the unlocking of several units. Its apples to oranges...
2 Aug 2019, 23:04 PM
#149
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 230


Of course it can! Silly me.
Not a single tech required. What a surprise! //////////////////////s

OH pays SIDE TECH to get units... #AxisOP
What the heck are you complaining of then? Cons only pay a crappy side tech to enable a single skill.

Thats why factions have restrains, otherwise OH would just skip T1 and T2 to get Pz4+OstW and win every single time. But that implies your hands are tied to anything on wheels.


The BPs are linear giving you options to build what you need, like choosing going caption or lieutenant, going battle hq first ect.

Just pointing that out.
2 Aug 2019, 23:13 PM
#150
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2309



The BPs are linear giving you options to build what you need, like choosing going caption or lieutenant, going battle hq first ect.

Just pointing that out.

we both agree perfectly then. There is not a single building necessary to OH, only BP enables new ones and let the player enable their strategies because of the game needs. Therefore buildings are to be considered side techs by the previous definition.
2 Aug 2019, 23:32 PM
#151
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 230


we both agree perfectly then. There is not a single building necessary to OH, only BP enables new ones and let the player enable their strategies because of the game needs. Therefore buildings are to be considered side techs by the previous definition.


Omg. To clarify further, having to purchase upgrades within a tech building (regardless of tech level) to improve units is SIDE TECH.

Edit: you have never played aoe have you?
3 Aug 2019, 00:32 AM
#152
avatar of Mazianni

Posts: 766

Thread is getting kind of cancerous.

Conscripts are basically worthless versus OKW and depend on the likewise horrible maxim and yet everyone is mumbling on about whether or not Ostheer has sidetechs (and no, they don't have any, unless you change the definition of the term. You can skip techs, sure, but all the ability unlocks are linear with BP or automatic).

Also, Molotovs shouldn't require teching at all, being literally a glass bottle full of gasoline. It's also probably the worst grenade of any sort in the game, taking half a year to throw, at which point half the squad is probably already dead. But by removing that side-tech you've added a little bit more utility to the otherwise hot garbage 240 manpower squad, and made them compare just a little bit better to the 250 manpower do-everything volks.

As for other nerfs to penals or buffs to conscripts, I don't play SOV regularly enough to really comment further. Conscripts are definitely the worst mainline infantry in the game, however, and merge isn't quite so useful since most of the Soviet weapon teams also suck or are too expensive to risk screening them with conscripts. The most I see merge used for is keeping flamethrower combat engineers in the fight.
3 Aug 2019, 01:07 AM
#153
avatar of GenObi

Posts: 522

make them cheaper would be my solution
3 Aug 2019, 01:10 AM
#154
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

cause osther was UP and never used not like soviet who at least have the crutch units


and core sov is UP aswell... it is quite literally unplayable without its doctrinal crutch units...

ost with bad doctrines >>> sov with bad doctrines...

the best solution here is just to nerf soviet doctrinal units... thats my 2c
3 Aug 2019, 04:41 AM
#155
avatar of Vykraznar

Posts: 14

I've finally been able to return to this thread. First of all, what the fuck's happened to it? A simple thread about Conscripts turned into a discussion about side techs, Panzerschrecks, and Ostwind. Second of all, the general consensus seems to be that in order to buff Conscripts we must nerf Penals and the T-70.

I personally disagree with that. I don't think Penals are overpowered/overperforming. Penals perform well, while Conscripts don't. Penals come way later and costs way more than any other mainline infantry. They might win a fight one-on-one but they will always be outnumbered by the less costly axis infantry. And once they get their weapon upgrades Penals will be outmatched until they reach vet3. The way people talk about Penals makes it seems like infantry just vaporize at the mere sight of them. So to summarize, instead of nerfing something that works, let's buff something that doesn't. If people hate Penals so much, then buffing Conscripts would make their pressence less ubiquitous, no?

Can't say much about the T-70. I do think it is a pretty nice light tank with decent AI and light AT. I can see why people would consider it if we look at its AI capabilities, but it gets countered pretty easily by a single Schreck squad or Puma.
3 Aug 2019, 07:03 AM
#156
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4079 | Subs: 1

so do we just ignore the cost increase for teching ?

Quite frankly... Yes. It's included in the teching whether you use it or not. But if you use your infantry they will become complete as you play. You can't quantify how much of the tech is allocated to each bit. Even right now, bp1 gives lmg, rifle nade and panzer grens. As well as part access to a new tier. How do you decide how much is split into each? How much of bp1 pays for panzergren access? Does any? Since it wasn't changed in price when they were MO Ed to t0? How much does the RG cost of that battle phase? Nobody knows because it's not disclosed. Or more likely it doesn't have a value. I doubt that if for some reason the rifle nade was removed that tech cost would change at all. It's a bonus that is timed behind teching rather than an ability that costs like teching. If that makes sense....

The fact of the matter is we CAN quantify the conscript upgrades because they do nothing but things for cons. The price of the upgrade is a direct increase on the cost of conscripts as they only benifit them.

Most other sidegrades effect multiple squads in the core army, like weapon racks, or bolster (brit grenade tech being an outlier, meaning YES getting grenades on Tommies increased the amount paid per squad indirectly, since it has no other value elsewhere)
3 Aug 2019, 10:31 AM
#157
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4326

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Aug 2019, 01:10 AMgbem


and core sov is UP aswell... it is quite literally unplayable without its doctrinal crutch units...

ost with bad doctrines >>> sov with bad doctrines...

the best solution here is just to nerf soviet doctrinal units... thats my 2c
yes exactly but what would happen if u only buffed the up unit while not nerfing the op ones when it has good winrates ?

ost had bad win rates, so they just buffed the useless unit , soviet has good win rates so u need to nerf the op units accordingly too

it's not only doc units penal spam is areal thing
3 Aug 2019, 10:34 AM
#158
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4326


Quite frankly... Yes. It's included in the teching whether you use it or not. But if you use your infantry they will become complete as you play. You can't quantify how much of the tech is allocated to each bit. Even right now, bp1 gives lmg, rifle nade and panzer grens. As well as part access to a new tier. How do you decide how much is split into each? How much of bp1 pays for panzergren access? Does any? Since it wasn't changed in price when they were MO Ed to t0? How much does the RG cost of that battle phase? Nobody knows because it's not disclosed. Or more likely it doesn't have a value. I doubt that if for some reason the rifle nade was removed that tech cost would change at all. It's a bonus that is timed behind teching rather than an ability that costs like teching. If that makes sense....

The fact of the matter is we CAN quantify the conscript upgrades because they do nothing but things for cons. The price of the upgrade is a direct increase on the cost of conscripts as they only benifit them.

Most other sidegrades effect multiple squads in the core army, like weapon racks, or bolster (brit grenade tech being an outlier, meaning YES getting grenades on Tommies increased the amount paid per squad indirectly, since it has no other value elsewhere)
i already made an example, compare it to ukf as they have similar costs, to get to tank they pay the same if they rush, ukf loses upgrades and ost loses tech structure if u rush, so the 15 fu +20 fu of the tech buildings are the cost of the upgrades
3 Aug 2019, 14:27 PM
#159
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 4079 | Subs: 1

i already made an example, compare it to ukf as they have similar costs, to get to tank they pay the same if they rush, ukf loses upgrades and ost loses tech structure if u rush, so the 15 fu +20 fu of the tech buildings are the cost of the upgrades

UKF =/= Soviet. Ukf sidegrades =/= conscript upgrades. Apples=/= oranges.

Also its the manpower more than the fuel that is the issue. 205 extra manpower solely into an already overpriced squad....
3 Aug 2019, 17:18 PM
#160
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4326


UKF =/= Soviet. Ukf sidegrades =/= conscript upgrades. Apples=/= oranges.

Also its the manpower more than the fuel that is the issue. 205 extra manpower solely into an already overpriced squad....
tech building cost mp too
can people stop playing the victim card when it's about allied units ? cons are not up to their task that's for sure, but adding upgrade cost ONLY to them in unfair and cherry pick way to look at it, they need a buff to mid and close range damage when they nerf the penals
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