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What do people think of Conscripts after the patch?

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2 Aug 2019, 15:14 PM
#81
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 14:40 PMgbem


double schrecks are extremely powerful... likewise if ever the enemy does make a sniper it is quite easy to change your strategy and opt for a 222 + flame truck + pak 40 strategy since the sniper is most likely going to come out very early anyways


then what about the STG volks and the luchs? or from LMG grens and the flametruck? how come i never heard a "too much shock value" complaint from axis mains?


fair enough


ive made my opinion clear ages ago on the penals and guards... the T-70 being strong is however acceptable seeing as how OST also gets several god tier units of its own (MG-42 flametruck new ostwind)
then u don't skip it anymore right ? again it's his choice if risk vs reward

luch is not as powerful as t 70 and stg i think does less dps than the 7th man upgrade in cover(but my opinion on stg has always been to remove them and opt for mp40)

flame truck can be armed by normal rifles and is quite fragile + 120 muni cost
the ostwind got a price addition so now it's not god tier
mg 42 works fine for it's price there are better mgs like cal 50 or dshk
2 Aug 2019, 15:34 PM
#82
avatar of Maret

Posts: 675

then u don't skip it anymore right ? again it's his choice if risk vs reward

luch is not as powerful as t 70 and stg i think does less dps than the 7th man upgrade in cover(but my opinion on stg has always been to remove them and opt for mp40)

flame truck can be armed by normal rifles and is quite fragile + 120 muni cost
the ostwind got a price addition so now it's not god tier
mg 42 works fine for it's price there are better mgs like cal 50 or dshk


Current OKW antisoviet build luchs+puma. Puma makes your t-70 very vulnerable and while luchs push infantry.
Volks-stg blob make overall situation more than darker if you choosed cons against OKW.

Mg-42 can build from T0 and compare it with doctrinal Dushka don't good point of view (dushka only in 1 viable commander - airborne, i don't remember when i saw in last time Defense or LendLease), while .50 cal don't have anything with soviets.

Ostwind get +10 fuel cost and turned from underdog to real AI+AA armored unit with blietzkrieg. I think it's more than good. PGrens got price decrease due to T0 (you can build them without deployed T2), you can field them earlier.
2 Aug 2019, 15:40 PM
#83
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

then u don't skip it anymore right ? again it's his choice if risk vs reward

and then 360 manpower goes down the drain along with much of the soviet build since T1 doesnt have much to counter WM LVs as easily as soviet T2 can


luch is not as powerful as t 70 and stg i think does less dps than the 7th man upgrade in cover(but my opinion on stg has always been to remove them and opt for mp40)

someone doesnt even know that the puma exists... and doesnt realize that the soviets CANNOT field decent infantry if they opt for a T-70... you know what? tie the STG to T4 then change the luchs to a panzer 3 with T-70 AI and slightly superior AT for all i care... you will understand the pain of having noodles for core infantry since your brain can only comprehend bullshit on the axis side...


flame truck can be armed by normal rifles and is quite fragile + 120 muni cost
the ostwind got a price addition so now it's not god tier
mg 42 works fine for it's price there are better mgs like cal 50 or dshk


1. the flametruck is extremely powerful in the right hands...
2. its still god tier in the role of wiping infantry.. no other vehicle can come close
3. excuse me? are you retarded enough to think that the 50 cal or the DSHK is better for its price than the MG42? because i would sure prefer a 280 pt MG42 as USF
2 Aug 2019, 15:51 PM
#84
avatar of Maret

Posts: 675

As i already told: do economical changes to cons and then tune them if something will go wrong. Much easier decrease-increase economical stats (cost of reinforcement and main cost) neither trying to make alchemy potion with battle stats. Ostwind got +10 fuel and this decreased shock effect from early arrive.

2 Aug 2019, 15:53 PM
#85
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 15:40 PMgbem

and then 360 manpower goes down the drain along with much of the soviet build since T1 doesnt have much to counter WM LVs as easily as soviet T2 can


someone doesnt even know that the puma exists... and doesnt realize that the soviets CANNOT field decent infantry if they opt for a T-70... you know what? tie the STG to T4 then change the luchs to a panzer 3 with T-70 AI and slightly superior AT for all i care... you will understand the pain of having noodles for core infantry since your brain can only comprehend bullshit on the axis side...



1. the flametruck is extremely powerful in the right hands...
2. its still god tier in the role of wiping infantry.. no other vehicle can come close
3. excuse me? are you retarded enough to think that the 50 cal or the DSHK is better for its price than the MG42? because i would sure prefer a 280 pt MG42 as USF
im not retarded maybe the retarded one is u with the fucking dots

cal 50 suppress faster and has a much faster almost instant set up time + more damage, i do think it's a better mg but it does cost more

ostwind right now has same performance as centaur and is still slower than a cromwell at Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1, while having only 110 armor so stop with god tier bullshit now that it works vs AI

every unit is powerful in the right hands u still don't know what makes it as "powerful" as u say

puma has 0 ai so what u shock with puma ? (if ur argument is that puma counter t 70 so does the su 76)

i was referring to ost, if they skip tier 2 ur argument was they could build it when it's need, then it's not a skip anymore right ? like if u see a sniper u build it then u are not skipping


2 Aug 2019, 15:58 PM
#86
avatar of Selvy289

Posts: 253

When the last changes went through, I didn't completely understand why the upgrade went into tier 4.

I mean pgrens come earlier and volks get ther stgs earlier and considering the upgrade is in tier 4, one can get obers.

I just think the upgrade should be in tier 3.
2 Aug 2019, 16:03 PM
#87
avatar of Maret

Posts: 675



cal 50 suppress faster and has a much faster almost instant set up time + more damage, i do think it's a better mg but it does cost more


Once again how .50cal works with soviets in 1vs1?


ostwind right now has same performance as centaur and is still slower than a cromwell at Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1, while having only 110 armor so stop with god tier bullshit now that it works vs AI


Once again how all this works with soviets? You compare AA with medium tank...Ok, let's compare SU-76 with ... i don't know P4/70, don't sounds weird? It's all sound as trolling, compare nonsoviet-units in theme about cons and use this as argument to current perfomance in OSTvsSU. OKWvsSU matchup.


every unit is powerful in the right hands u still don't know what makes it as "powerful" as u say

puma has 0 ai so what u shock with puma ? (if ur argument is that puma counter t 70 so does the su 76)

Yes you are right, puma clear AT unit, but no one build only puma against SU. First luchs then puma and if we will be count su-76 equal to puma...Ok, what we will do woth volks-stg blob and cons? You reasonable evading from considering this element in overall problem?

2 Aug 2019, 16:07 PM
#88
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

then how do u call an unit good ? if i don't compare it with somehting ?

his stamens are they are god like units, when they have the performance lower or similar to other comparable units

for example i could say all soviet team weapon are god like cause they have six, i u can't compare it to other mgs this statement would be true
2 Aug 2019, 16:12 PM
#89
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

cal 50 suppress faster and has a much faster almost instant set up time + more damage, i do think it's a better mg but it does cost more


the MG42 is equipped with the krauteleporter and gets the ridiculously powerful API rounds on top of its superior firing arc...


ostwind right now has same performance as centaur and is still slower than a cromwell at Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1, while having only 110 armor so stop with god tier bullshit now that it works vs AI

the ostwind is faster than the centaur you idiot... it also has superior performance vs light vehicles


puma has 0 ai so what u shock with puma ? (if ur argument is that puma counter t 70 so does the su 76)

well arent you a special child as not to realize that if one goes for a T-70 + SU-76 one would simply be swarmed by STG VOLKS THAT HAVE FUCKING WEAPON UPGRADES while completely nullifying the "shock" of the T-70... stop being retarded....


i was referring to ost, if they skip tier 2 ur argument was they could build it when it's need, then it's not a skip anymore right ? like if u see a sniper u build it then u are not skipping


meanwhile this entire argument is about sov T2 and its viability... in a 1v1 situation the moment one sees the soviet player bring out a maxim or a T2 structure its game over... might aswell hand the victory to WM as conscripts have no way of combatting LMG grens + ostwind rush
2 Aug 2019, 16:14 PM
#90
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2966



Making a faction rely on call in inf to have functional mainline inf is bad design in my opinion. It renders many of all sov commanders useless.
Also cons are not so cheap to reinforce.

- Cons: 240 mp 6 man 20 mp to reinforce. 240÷6=40 which means reinforce is 50% effective.

- Volks: 250 mp 5 man 25 mp to reinforce. 250÷5=50 which means reinforce is 50% effective.

A unit with bad reinforce cost would be Obers which have only 20% effective reinforce cost.

So volks and cons have the same effective reinforce cost but volks is a superior unit that can perform early, mid and late game. Gets utility through natural tech progression and have good non-doc weapon upgrade. Able to reach vet 5 on top of this.

I agree that the 7 man thing is actual good for lategame utility and makes merging and zerg rush for snares less risky.

If you don't want to be shoehorned into using doctrinal shit to make your faction work go play axis lmao. Kinda just something you have to deal with. It's not even that much of an issue since there's literally like over 10 commanders that either have elite inf or weapon upgrades (ppsh, svt) for cons.

That math makes no sense; it has no practical application in the actual game. You just divided build cost by squad size and came up with a random number. Comparatively, they are much cheaper to reinforce than all other mainlines, the next cheapest being volks at 5 more to reinforce, which is not insignificant.
2 Aug 2019, 16:15 PM
#91
avatar of Maret

Posts: 675

then how do u call an unit good ? if i don't compare it with somehting ?

his stamens are they are god like units, when they have the performance lower or similar to other comparable units

for example i could say all soviet team weapon are god like cause they have six, i u can't compare it to other mgs this statement would be true


Use your mind, don't feelings. There is one simple thing - if unit don't use, this unit maybe broken. How often you saw ostwind before patch in 1vs1?
When you in competitive 1vs1 saw cons? When you saw maxim? In theme with mg-34 i suggested give OKW maxim with 6 man and give SU mg-34 with 4 man. I think you can understand by yourself which mg from these 2 you prefer the most.
Then told me which SU unit you see almost every game, let me say - penals! Almost every game only penals, because their performance close to performance of mainline infantry WFA. Cons need rework as old ostwind, it's very weird that iconic unit in whole faction don't use at all.

2 Aug 2019, 16:17 PM
#92
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341


If you don't want to be shoehorned into using doctrinal shit to make your faction work go play axis lmao. Kinda just something you have to deal with.


that is simply bad faction design you know...
2 Aug 2019, 16:21 PM
#93
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:12 PMgbem


the MG42 is equipped with the krauteleporter and gets the ridiculously powerful API rounds on top of its superior firing arc...


the ostwind is faster than the centaur you idiot... it also has superior performance vs light vehicles


well arent you a special child as not to realize that if one goes for a T-70 + SU-76 one would simply be swarmed by STG VOLKS THAT HAVE FUCKING WEAPON UPGRADES while completely nullifying the "shock" of the T-70... stop being retarded....



meanwhile this entire argument is about sov T2 and its viability... in a 1v1 situation the moment one sees the soviet player bring out a maxim or a T2 structure its game over... might aswell hand the victory to WM as conscripts have no way of combatting LMG grens + ostwind rush

are u in denial ?
u said "double schrecks are extremely powerful... likewise if ever the enemy does make a sniper it is quite easy to change your strategy and opt for a 222 + flame truck + pak 40 strategy since the sniper is most likely going to come out very early anyways"
and i responded that if u build it u don't skip it anymore right ?

The piercing round is a vet ability and again what's ur point ? vicker for example get it permanent at vet 2

the centaur has 100% accuracy vs lv on the move and 160 armor instead of 110 so u lose speed and u gain armor seems fair to me .... u idiot

can't u swarm him with penal or mgs ? and getting swarmed ? how did u lose ur units or the t 70 can't kill model anymore ?
if it's just as u said the tournament would have a 100% win rate for okw, which I don't see, and actually see that they are balanced with a bit of an edge for soviets

2 Aug 2019, 16:32 PM
#94
avatar of Maret

Posts: 675



if it's just as u said the tournament would have a 100% win rate for okw, which I don't see, and actually see that they are balanced with a bit of an edge for soviets



My God...it's maybe gold quote that everyone can use to not change units of opposite faction. DOn't you see how silly it's sounds?
"Ostwind broken! if it's just as u said the tournament would have a 100% win rate for su, which I don't see, and actually see that it balanced with a bit of an edge for ost."

"Pgrens don't have usage, they come too late and cost too much! if it's just as u said the tournament would have a 100% win rate for su, which I don't see, and actually see that they are balanced with a bit of an edge for ost."

"Cons broken, no one use them with real opponents! if it's just as u said the tournament would have a 100% win rate for okw, which I don't see, and actually see that they are balanced with a bit of an edge for su."

Let's stop this school-level trolling and try to find decision, instead blaming each other and make aggro from different words. Do you have your thoughts about cons performance in-game? You by yourself tried use them against strong opponent, without doctrinal weapon? I think no.
2 Aug 2019, 16:39 PM
#95
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341


are u in denial ?
u said "double schrecks are extremely powerful... likewise if ever the enemy does make a sniper it is quite easy to change your strategy and opt for a 222 + flame truck + pak 40 strategy since the sniper is most likely going to come out very early anyways"
and i responded that if u build it u don't skip it anymore right ?

you seem to be incapable of comprehending the statement... IF YOU SEE A SNIPER THEN THE CONCERN IS NO LONGER WITH TIER 2 BUT WITH TIER 1... the ACTUAL soviet tier with ACTUAL infantry... its the SOLE reason why the soviets even have a winrate above 40%.... please note that the soviets had THE WORST WINRATE OUT OF ALL FACTIONS before penals were overbuffed


The piercing round is a vet ability and again what's ur point ? vicker for example get it permanent at vet 2


it is still a really powerful MG despite that ability being locket to vet 2... now imagine if the MG42 had the stats of the 50 cal... no thanks id rather have the 50


the centaur has 100% accuracy vs lv on the move and 160 armor instead of 110 so u lose speed and u gain armor seems fair to me .... u idiot

while the ostwind does quite a bit more damage and fires a bit more quickly and has a hull mounted MG on top of that



can't u swarm him with penal

retard


or mgs ?

laughs in maxim


how did u lose ur units or the t 70 can't kill model anymore ?

ohh right... that even assumes you survive long enough to hit the T-70 considering how useless your infantry is once OKW and WM get their first tech building >.>


if it's just as u said the tournament would have a 100% win rate for okw, which I don't see, and actually see that they are balanced with a bit of an edge for soviets

https://www.coh2.org/news/92866/automatch-stats-factions-teams-and-maps#stat1v1

overall OKW winrates are higher than soviet winrates... not to mention that in tournaments everyone abuses DOCTRINAL INFANTRY and PENALS... something that i DO AGREE is broken
2 Aug 2019, 16:48 PM
#96
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

nice try i linked u that, u must really think im a retard by calling me always and even try to use that aganist me but u are blind and didn't see this at mid to high lvl soviet are very good

before the maxim nerf they had the best win rate what's ur point ?


well it's a good mg, it's not god tier it simply performs for its price (unlike viker and maxim)

they tested and kill infantry about the same time mg or not (it's in the nerf ostwind thread video made by sanders)

again what's u point ? if they do nerf penal and t 70 than ok u can buff cons close range dps (so it does not change interaction with green) and make maxim suppress

2 Aug 2019, 16:49 PM
#97
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4343

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 16:32 PMMaret



Let's stop this school-level trolling and try to find decision, instead blaming each other and make aggro from different words. Do you have your thoughts about cons performance in-game? You by yourself tried use them against strong opponent, without doctrinal weapon? I think no.
i alredy said them, if u actually read post , nerf penal nerf t 70, buff close and mid range dps for cons, make the maxim suppress but make it longer set up time

if there is really a need make the 7th man upgrade to tier 3 but with a side tech or not if the t 70 is nerfed right
2 Aug 2019, 16:59 PM
#98
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

nice try i linked u that, u must really think im a retard by calling me always and even try to use that aganist me but u are blind and didn't see this at mid to high lvl soviet are very good



yes indeed you do have a deficit in your cognitive capacity... as ive said before... TOURNEYS AND HIGH LEVELS DONT MATTER SINCE EVERYONE ABUSES DOCTRINAL INFANTRY AND PENALS...


before the maxim nerf they had the best win rate what's ur point ?

ok let me simplify this for you
3 "eras" of soviet meta
1st era = maxim era = high soviet winrate
maxim gets nerfed to the ground
cos unchanged
2nd era = no core infantry era = rock bottom winrate
penals get buffed to compensate
cos unchanged
3rd era = penal and doctrinal infantry era = decent winrate

in this second era one can see that the soviets didnt have penals or viable doctrinal infantry to back them up... and soo they FELL LIKE A ROCK... now the only thing propping up the soviet winrate are PENALS and DOCTRINAL INFANTRY... which highlights how weak core soviet infantry is...


well it's a good mg, it's not god tier it simply performs for its price (unlike viker and maxim)

it is still THE BEST MG qualitatively ingame and the most COST EFFICIENT MG ingame aswell

they tested and kill infantry about the same time mg or not (it's in the nerf ostwind thread video made by sanders)

yes they do have similar MTTK.. against SPREAD OUT UNITS... the ostwind is considerably more powerful against bunched up infantry in yellow cover (i tested it in cheatmod aswell)


again what's u point ? if they do nerf penal and t 70 than ok u can buff cons close range dps (so it does not change interaction with green) and make maxim suppress

if you nerf the T-70 then nerf the MG42 ostwind and flametruck so that theyre no longer god tier units... or is axis the only side thats supposed to get viable god tier units?
2 Aug 2019, 17:03 PM
#99
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

i alredy said them, if u actually read post , nerf penal nerf t 70, buff close and mid range dps for cons, make the maxim suppress but make it longer set up time

if there is really a need make the 7th man upgrade to tier 3 but with a side tech or not if the t 70 is nerfed right


nerf the penal not the T-70... the T-70 though powerful is rendered dead once the (much more powerful) ostwind arrives... while OKW still has its invisible meme AT gun that when paired can wreck a T-70 pretty easily along with the puma
2 Aug 2019, 17:10 PM
#100
avatar of honeymonstis

Posts: 23


That math makes no sense; it has no practical application in the actual game. You just divided build cost by squad size and came up with a random number. Comparatively, they are much cheaper to reinforce than all other mainlines, the next cheapest being volks at 5 more to reinforce, which is not insignificant.


no the math makes sense as it was how Relic used to add reinforce costs in all their essence engine games (DoW and CoH).
6 cons = 240 mp. That means one fresh build cons model cost 40. So reinforce cost is 50% of that. So that means its 50% cheaper to reinforce than buy a new squad. Its the same for volks.
Now for some units its different to balance the unit(see obers).
Also 5 mp difference between Volks and cons is a bit but its really not that much given how much better performance the volks have. Problem is that if you outfit the cons with better weapons the low reinforce cost becomes op. That is why the new upgrade also blocks weapon pick ups on cons.
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