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What do people think of Conscripts after the patch?

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1 Aug 2019, 16:48 PM
#21
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 989 | Subs: 1

I have not played too much SOV lately, but I thinkt the upgrade has not changed the meta.
Cons previously were a gamble from early(due to bad performance) to late game (if they get whiped, new cons will be horribly bad). Now late game seems okay taking into account that they are non doc. But early game is not fixed, and also Soviets you can't spam conscripts since you need other units like Guards or Shocks to deal real damage. So you can build either 4 cons and be unable to fit good infantry into the build, or build only two and hope you survive to 2 CPs.
Also, there are not that many units worth merging into besides the ZiS, due to the shitty model stats of the conscript.
1 Aug 2019, 17:31 PM
#22
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341



It was designed to be slightly better than the SVT upgrade, because the SVT upgrade comes a lot sooner. SVTs are good for the early-mid game, while the 7th man is better for the late game.


grens rifles IS and volks become significantly better after a single tech upgrade or a sidetech... meanwhile conscripts have to wait till T4 in order to recieve a similar upgrade... move it to T3 to be fair with EVERY other faction ingame...
1 Aug 2019, 17:40 PM
#23
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1593 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 17:31 PMgbem


grens rifles IS and volks become significantly better after a single tech upgrade or a sidetech... meanwhile conscripts have to wait till T4 in order to recieve a similar upgrade... move it to T3 to be fair with EVERY other faction ingame...


To be fair, it should be without a tier or T1 / T2 anchor, since the Volks and Grenadiers have a low tier anchor. Then in a 20% increase it will really make sense - by 10-15 minutes T4 Conscripts will already have veteranism.
1 Aug 2019, 17:49 PM
#24
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 13:06 PMaaa
Aganst okw just amove them always. Against grens there is no solution other than sniper start.

I would just nerf mg42 to 34 or maxim level

>cons are not op in early game as they should be
>let's nerf the mg 42 that's the only crutch keeping ost from going below 40% win rate

.....
if u fell cons are weak early game at least don't ruin osther
1 Aug 2019, 17:54 PM
#25
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306

I have not played too much SOV lately, but I thinkt the upgrade has not changed the meta.
Cons previously were a gamble from early(due to bad performance) to late game (if they get whiped, new cons will be horribly bad). Now late game seems okay taking into account that they are non doc. But early game is not fixed, and also Soviets you can't spam conscripts since you need other units like Guards or Shocks to deal real damage. So you can build either 4 cons and be unable to fit good infantry into the build, or build only two and hope you survive to 2 CPs.
Also, there are not that many units worth merging into besides the ZiS, due to the shitty model stats of the conscript.
they only have 1.09 more RA for team weapon is always worth it as they have 1.25 base RA, for other if they got vet it does not matter as base they have 1.00 apart from guards that have 0.97 base

im unsure if they keep their armor or get the armor of the squad but anyway u pay much less to reinforce for a 9% RA difference generally for inf and it's instant, it's more than worth it, and with the 7th man upgrade u pay even less for merging
1 Aug 2019, 17:59 PM
#26
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

tbh the 42 isnt the reason why earlygame cons have huge problems... the main issue is the volks and grens get their weapon upgrades almost imemdiately while cons take ages to recieve their upgrades... that plus okw having waay too much starting MP compared to sov, sturm + volk vs engineer + cons means that the soviets are pretty much gonna be in the backfoot at the start of the game...

the best solution imo is
put the conscript upgrade to T3 (the upgrade is quite powerful to be fair)
then add 10% DPS to the base conscript rifle...
1 Aug 2019, 18:27 PM
#27
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1341 | Subs: 3

The 7 men upgrade absolutely makes merging great value. For example if you have Penals:

- Penals cost 25 manpower to reinforce and have 1 base RA.
- 7 men Cons cost 17 manpower to reinforce and have 1,087 base RA.

At vet 3, Penal models in a Penal squad will have 1*0,85 = 0,85 RA, while Con models will have 1*1,087*0,85 ≈ 0.924 RA. The difference becomes only 7,6% RA, while the models are 32% cheaper. All Soviet elite infantry start with 1 base RA, so it becomes even better value with them (except Shocks cause of armor). Could mean an extra tank worth of manpower in a match.

Now if only the upgrade made Conscripts reinforce double as fast..
1 Aug 2019, 18:33 PM
#28
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4306

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Aug 2019, 17:59 PMgbem
tbh the 42 isnt the reason why earlygame cons have huge problems... the main issue is the volks and grens get their weapon upgrades almost imemdiately while cons take ages to recieve their upgrades... that plus okw having waay too much starting MP compared to sov, sturm + volk vs engineer + cons means that the soviets are pretty much gonna be in the backfoot at the start of the game...

the best solution imo is
put the conscript upgrade to T3 (the upgrade is quite powerful to be fair)
then add 10% DPS to the base conscript rifle...
no they are fine vs green they always been so, and I don't remember green getting buffed while cons did get long and close range buff and a vet buff

the problem people have is vs volks as they can spam them like cons thanks to the starting mp
just nerf that
cons beat volks at medium to close range
if u really want a buff, buff the close range cd or accuracy
1 Aug 2019, 18:53 PM
#29
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

no they are fine vs green they always been so, and I don't remember green getting buffed while cons did get long and close range buff and a vet buff

the problem people have is vs volks as they can spam them like cons thanks to the starting mp
just nerf that
cons beat volks at medium to close range
if u really want a buff, buff the close range cd or accuracy


cons were fine vs grens if they had the PPSH... conscripts without the PPSH simply couldnt compete against the LMG gren as they would immediately bleed manpower... the fact that the upgrade in order to match the LMG gren comes in T4 makes the matchup unfavorable vs grens until T4 is unlocked... hence my argument that the LMG gren and 7 man cons MUST have relatively close timing...
1 Aug 2019, 20:15 PM
#30
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 989 | Subs: 1

they only have 1.09 more RA for team weapon is always worth it as they have 1.25 base RA, for other if they got vet it does not matter as base they have 1.00 apart from guards that have 0.97 base

im unsure if they keep their armor or get the armor of the squad but anyway u pay much less to reinforce for a 9% RA difference generally for inf and it's instant, it's more than worth it, and with the 7th man upgrade u pay even less for merging

My reasoning was that the maxim is generally rarely worth buying, the mortar often does not need it and is cheaper to reinforce.
This leaves us with the ZiS, Guards (trade MP for RA, but only if your con is full health, otherwise running back to base might anyway be better) and flamer pioneera.

I also assumed that they do not get the armor, since armor is bound to the model just like RA? Could be mistaken though.
1 Aug 2019, 21:51 PM
#31
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 122 | Subs: 2

I allways use CON build and i main SOV so i figure i throw in my 2 cents.

The 7 men squad is nice but it comes out way too late. Make I available when you get maxim or penal building.

As for PPSH41, make a non doc 3 PPSH41 upgrade available when you unlock maxim or penal build but also allow to upgrade it with another 3 PPSH41's with the appropriate doctrines. This gives Cons much needed flexibility on different map types and against different enemy types while still needed clever play to punch above their weight. For example on long range maps or support heavy builds you can take the 7 man CONS. On mid range maps you can get 1 PPSH41 package or SVT40's to stay effective at most ranges. On close range maps you can take 2 PPSH41 packages to make great but muni expensive CQC glass cannon units that require some good micro to stay alive but can trade really efficiently. This to me would be the most ideal solution while makeing sure the stay true to their design and making sure they are not over powered.
1 Aug 2019, 21:52 PM
#32
avatar of honeymonstis

Posts: 23

As the title says, what are your opinions on Cons after the recent patch. Do you think they're now a viable option as opposed to going Penals? I personally find that the 7-man upgrade does very little to improve upon their performance. Even after being upgraded with a 7th man, they still lose to LMG Grens or StG Volks at all ranges. Not to mention that the upgrade comes way later at T4. I also find it a bit odd how people were complaining about their atrocious early-game performance, yet their late-game was buffed instead (and not by much either). But I digress, I wanna hear your opinions on the matter.


well I guess its an decent "buff" if you dont pick a commander with cons upgrade. Their combat performance when upgraded is completely irrelevant by the time you can add the +1 meatshield.
I think its nice buff to help with their merge ability but cons are still the worst non-doc main inf in the game (and no I do not consider something so silly as penals to be sov mainline).
I dont know if its more impactful in 1vs1 but in 2vs2 -> 4vs4 its a decent upgrade for that 1 cons you keep around for snares.

Sov inf just honestly needs a rework. Move penals to a doctrine as that fits them. Thematically it makes no sense that the soviet union outfits their traitors, criminals, cowards and "wrongthinkers" with their quite rare and expensive weapons. Penals as elite inf is the most silly thing in Coh to date.
1 Aug 2019, 22:33 PM
#33
avatar of Maret

Posts: 612



Sov inf just honestly needs a rework. Move penals to a doctrine as that fits them. Thematically it makes no sense that the soviet union outfits their traitors, criminals, cowards and "wrongthinkers" with their quite rare and expensive weapons. Penals as elite inf is the most silly thing in Coh to date.


I say you more - if you as penal got wound in battle, you are automatically return to regular regiments as normal soldier. In game penals got wound everytime, but never can be turned to regular soldiers...Relics logic. This behavior of penals, like in game, were normal for german penals regiments - where you can't returned to regular regiments, only death or end of war could dismiss you. But who cares about history details...

What about penals - i said it already, they must become narrow specialists squad (close combat ppsh unit with satchels or ptrs squad), while cons must be main infantry and work in pair with them to get maximum profit.
But current situation with endless reworks and buffs allied and german infantry did cons total trash. If earlier they could work, but now they too weak, volks and grens beat them as got upgrades (volks cost only 4% more and could beat them even without upgrades). Maxims that supposed to work with cons - trash. Weak HMG lead to situation where you can't support your weak infantry...
And only way not to lose field pressure - use more expensive and more tougher penals. All hail T1! Rest in piece T2 and cons.
2 Aug 2019, 01:59 AM
#34
avatar of Vykraznar

Posts: 14

What if Conscripts gain their seventh man through veterancy, and the SVT-40 upgrade was made non-doctrinal. Also maybe buff their early game DPS a bit. The SVT drop for the Airbourne commander can be changed to a ZiS gun drop or something.
2 Aug 2019, 02:03 AM
#35
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

What if Conscripts gain their seventh man through veterancy, and the SVT-40 upgrade was made non-doctrinal. Also maybe buff their early game DPS a bit. The SVT drop for the Airbourne commander can be changed to a ZiS gun drop or something.


bad idea... better to just retain it as a vanilla weapon upgrade but come out a bit earlier at around either 1st tech building... a side tech or T3... the main issue here is timing vs WM and performance before it is unlocked vs OKW
2 Aug 2019, 02:07 AM
#36
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2930

IMO cons are fine. They're kinda weak compared to other mainlines but they can still hold their own and they're so much cheaper than any other mainline to reinforce. I think you do need to use elite infantry with them to make them work, which is fine because they save you so much MP and soviet elites come at 2cp. The 7 man thing is great for lategame and they already get really good vet too.
2 Aug 2019, 02:12 AM
#37
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1341

IMO cons are fine. They're kinda weak compared to other mainlines but they can still hold their own and they're so much cheaper than any other mainline to reinforce. I think you do need to use elite infantry with them to make them work, which is fine because they save you so much MP and soviet elites come at 2cp. The 7 man thing is great for lategame and they already get really good vet too.


i find the argument of relying on doctrinal soviet elite infantry to compensate for a factional deficiency a bad idea... it is much better to make conscripts just as viable as any other mainline ingame...
2 Aug 2019, 02:15 AM
#38
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3961 | Subs: 1

IMO cons are fine. They're kinda weak compared to other mainlines but they can still hold their own and they're so much cheaper than any other mainline to reinforce. I think you do need to use elite infantry with them to make them work, which is fine because they save you so much MP and soviet elites come at 2cp. The 7 man thing is great for lategame and they already get really good vet too.

cheaper per man because they are vastly less per man. they shouldnt be the same price as their counterparts while being woefully unable to compete once the enemy builds their first tech.
the fact that they need another 205 mp and not small amount of fuel to even be kitted out, whil being the same price AND worse is just a travesty.
whats more, their 7th man is tied as late in tech as call in heavy armour.

out gunned and outfought. cant outnumber, but its ok because after 20 minutes of bleeding they will bleed less!
2 Aug 2019, 02:42 AM
#40
avatar of Vykraznar

Posts: 14

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Aug 2019, 02:03 AMgbem


bad idea... better to just retain it as a vanilla weapon upgrade but come out a bit earlier at around either 1st tech building... a side tech or T3... the main issue here is timing vs WM and performance before it is unlocked vs OKW

Okay, ditch that then. How about we make the seventh man upgrade available once either T1 or T2 is built, make Conscripts 210 manpower, and buff their early game DPS a bit? :D
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