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What do people think of Conscripts after the patch?

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4 Aug 2019, 11:22 AM
#181
avatar of honeymonstis

Posts: 23

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2019, 08:23 AMgbem


ok i have to bust this...
historically the soviets didnt have conscripts but reservists...


you raise good points but this part is simply not true. The Soviets like ANY other major power in WW2 made use of conscription. The Soviets conscripted nearly 30 million men.
1944 OKW should not have access to the same quality of mainline troops as the sov or any other faction if you went by history (also why volks in original design where worse AI than conscripts). The obersoldaten (silly name) are your 1938-42 trained professional last remnants of the German infantry. The game no longer reflects this as it made for bad gameplay,
4 Aug 2019, 11:33 AM
#182
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

then add it a little cost something like 20 fu 200 mp


nerfing the penals makes sense... penals pressure axis especially OKW with much ferocity that they melt if they dont retreat... their performance should be flatter with a mutually exclusive AI upgrade (ala panzer fusiliers) for lategame...

if it were up to me id change penals with
1. make em cost 280mp
2. give mosin nagants equivalent to panzerfusiliers
3. give an option for 2 PTRS
4. also give a mutually exclusive AI upgrade option to 6 SVTs
5. change RA to panzerfusiliers levels

voila u have a more balanced unit like a pfusi but has regular satchels, satchel snare (with upgrade) and the performance buff on losing models in exchange for the nade and the regular snare...

it may not be "assymetric balance"... but it would definitely be more balanced...

however nerfing the T-70 would remove the last nondoc god tier unit from the soviets... but of course axis can keep the MG42 and the ostwind

and 20 fuel and 200mp would make the T-70 more expensive than the T-34... that is the dumbest nerf ive ever heard of
4 Aug 2019, 11:38 AM
#183
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



you raise good points but this part is simply not true. The Soviets like ANY other major power in WW2 made use of conscription. The Soviets conscripted nearly 30 million men.
1944 OKW should not have access to the same quality of mainline troops as the sov or any other faction if you went by history (also why volks in original design where worse AI than conscripts). The obersoldaten (silly name) are your 1938-42 trained professional last remnants of the German infantry. The game no longer reflects this as it made for bad gameplay,


id guess i worded it wrong... yes the soviets used conscripts but a large portion of their army were reservists... whereas the germans mostly used conscripts as opposed to reservists to supplement their standing army...
4 Aug 2019, 12:08 PM
#184
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2019, 11:33 AMgbem


nerfing the penals makes sense... penals pressure axis especially OKW with much ferocity that they melt if they dont retreat... their performance should be flatter with a mutually exclusive AI upgrade (ala panzer fusiliers) for lategame...

if it were up to me id change penals with
1. make em cost 280mp
2. give mosin nagants equivalent to panzerfusiliers
3. give an option for 2 PTRS
4. also give a mutually exclusive AI upgrade option to 6 SVTs
5. change RA to panzerfusiliers levels

voila u have a more balanced unit like a pfusi but has regular satchels, satchel snare (with upgrade) and the performance buff on losing models in exchange for the nade and the regular snare...

it may not be "assymetric balance"... but it would definitely be more balanced...

however nerfing the T-70 would remove the last nondoc god tier unit from the soviets... but of course axis can keep the MG42 and the ostwind

and 20 fuel and 200mp would make the T-70 more expensive than the T-34... that is the dumbest nerf ive ever heard of
that penal rework could work well

nerf t 70 buff maxim to actual mg lvl

the 20 fu and 200 mp is for the cons upgrade at tier 3 if u want it earlier, but if u nerf penal u could just increase the mid and close range damage of cons
4 Aug 2019, 12:40 PM
#185
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

that penal rework could work well

nerf t 70 buff maxim to actual mg lvl

the 20 fu and 200 mp is for the cons upgrade at tier 3 if u want it earlier, but if u nerf penal u could just increase the mid and close range damage of cons

While i understand logic of such changes, but who will need in such case T1 and T3? T1 was build only for penals as main unit, T3 only for T-70 (hom much you saw when opponent with equal skill to you, build su-76 or M5 instead T-70?). SU player couldn't sit in T3, if you sit in T3 and trying use SU-76 to stop axis armor, it means that something in your game went wrong. The more longer you sit, then smaller your chances to win. It's rule have onle one exception - when you choose doc with call-in heavy, but even is this case, you build 2 zis and wait.
As i earlier said: nerfed penals and nerfed T-70 almost kill 2 SU tier (T1 and T3). If today we see almost every game only penals spam, highly likely we would see only cons and maxims spam (hello again future nerf to maxims). And cycle of balance will start again.
4 Aug 2019, 12:48 PM
#186
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

that penal rework could work well

nerf t 70 buff maxim to actual mg lvl

the 20 fu and 200 mp is for the cons upgrade at tier 3 if u want it earlier, but if u nerf penal u could just increase the mid and close range damage of cons


why does axis get an ostwind buff while not getting a nerf?
4 Aug 2019, 12:59 PM
#187
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2019, 12:48 PMgbem


why does axis get an ostwind buff while not getting a nerf?
1 they had below 50% win rate unlike soviet 2 it did get nerfed right after with a price increase
4 Aug 2019, 13:06 PM
#188
avatar of Maret

Posts: 711

1 they had below 50% win rate unlike soviet 2 it did get nerfed right after with a price increase

While it's true there are some...misunderstandings. Try to play through cons and T2 exclusively every game and what your W\L rating will be in such case? Sovie winrate only because penals exists.
4 Aug 2019, 13:59 PM
#189
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

1 they had below 50% win rate unlike soviet 2 it did get nerfed right after with a price increase


before penals were buffed the soviets had sub 45% winrate... nerf penals = the faction falls apart... at that point any nerfs to units like the T-70 would only make it worse... just rework penals so that theyre balanced then buff conscripts to actually be useful...
4 Aug 2019, 14:51 PM
#190
avatar of Vykraznar

Posts: 14

200 manpower and 20 fuel for a 10% increase in DPS is ridiculously overpriced (unless you meant it as a global upgrade, which I doubt you did). Especially compared to Grens and Volks that get their weapon upgrades much earlier and are much cheaper in cost. If the (completely unneeded) Penal and T-70 nerf also go through without giving Conscripts any actual proper early game buffs and a fairly priced and properly timed 7-man upgrade then that could signal the death of the Soviet faction.
4 Aug 2019, 16:34 PM
#191
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2019, 13:06 PMMaret

While it's true there are some...misunderstandings. Try to play through cons and T2 exclusively every game and what your W\L rating will be in such case? Sovie winrate only because penals exists.
exactly nerf penal to normal lvl like the gbem changes and buff base cons close and mid range + make maxim actually supress
4 Aug 2019, 16:38 PM
#192
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

200 manpower and 20 fuel for a 10% increase in DPS is ridiculously overpriced (unless you meant it as a global upgrade, which I doubt you did). Especially compared to Grens and Volks that get their weapon upgrades much earlier and are much cheaper in cost. If the (completely unneeded) Penal and T-70 nerf also go through without giving Conscripts any actual proper early game buffs and a fairly priced and properly timed 7-man upgrade then that could signal the death of the Soviet faction.
1 I said something like that not precise price I even highlighted it 2 the 7th man is more than a 10% dps upgrade, its 1 more rifle , 80 more hp, can recreate 2 weapons teams, bonus bet and bonus in cover, the 7th rifle is already 1/6 more dps so more than 10 %
4 Aug 2019, 16:43 PM
#193
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Aug 2019, 13:59 PMgbem


before penals were buffed the soviets had sub 45% winrate... nerf penals = the faction falls apart... at that point any nerfs to units like the T-70 would only make it worse... just rework penals so that theyre balanced then buff conscripts to actually be useful...
yes exactly nerf the op buff the up
6 Aug 2019, 04:08 AM
#195
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

yes exactly nerf the op buff the up


Yeah... soo dont touch the T70 since it isnt what makes the faction overperform in the tourney... its the penal
6 Aug 2019, 19:12 PM
#196
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1484

I dont think Cons will ever replace Penals or call in infantry. The 7 man squad upgrade comes in wayyy to late while Volks and Grens can get out LMGs and STGs by T2. The only purpose I have been using for cons is to merge AT guns and MGs and snares.
6 Aug 2019, 21:58 PM
#197
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

yes... that is why until conscripts are buffed appropriately a core T2 sov build will always have sub 45% winrate even with the T-70...
6 Aug 2019, 22:18 PM
#198
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 730

Very useful in late game,but don't have any help at early game,I'd like to see it buff spread to HQ 3 upgrade or just give Cons DP upgrade when Soviet build any 2 production building
6 Aug 2019, 22:31 PM
#199
avatar of Hon3ynuts

Posts: 818

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Aug 2019, 21:58 PMgbem
yes... that is why until conscripts are buffed appropriately a core T2 sov build will always have sub 45% winrate even with the T-70...


Maxim's are like the worst HMG in supression capability, Damage and They aren't incredibly survivable or cheap to reinforce since the changes they have recieved. That holds back t2 more than conscripts, if you had a vickers or .50 cal that pops off models easily you would have a different dynamic.
7 Aug 2019, 00:57 AM
#200
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



Maxim's are like the worst HMG in supression capability, Damage and They aren't incredibly survivable or cheap to reinforce since the changes they have recieved. That holds back t2 more than conscripts, if you had a vickers or .50 cal that pops off models easily you would have a different dynamic.

but conscripts being trash certainly doesnt help
even when cons have ppshs the maxim is leaps and bounds better because the enemy cant just close with impunity.
its all an eco system mate, cons HAVE to be viable or it will be maxim spam like it was or penal spam like it is now.
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