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Command p4

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16 Jul 2019, 02:31 AM
#1
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 8

I just learned yesterday that the command p4s intended nerf never actually went through? It was supposed to get its -20% damage reduction aura nerfed to -10% but despite the note in the changelog it stayed the same?

This unit is also too strong in team games. Should only give bonus to your units not allies as well
16 Jul 2019, 03:50 AM
#2
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 123

It is actually fine. 10 % would make it worthless.
16 Jul 2019, 05:25 AM
#3
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1461

...
This unit is also too strong in team games...

Could you elaborate more on the "too strong" definition of yours?

It is also worth saying that game balance is prioritized to 1v1's then teamgames, that might have been the reason why CPz4 wasnt nerfed at all.
16 Jul 2019, 05:38 AM
#4
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2877 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2019, 03:50 AMFarlion
It is actually fine. 10 % would make it worthless.

Minimum 1 extra hit to kill from basicly everything is still a huge buff. A p4 under the aura now requires 5 hits instead of 4 from standard AT effectively making it a 25% bonus to EHP against most sources.
Panther too would require an entire extra hit making it as much HP as a Tiger.
But yea, it would be worthless....

COMPLETELY unrelated, remember when rangers had the *ahem* worthless 10 damage reduction and could tank entire grenades?
Absolutely worthless.

Oh or the snipers with 82hp (vs the 88 of infantry under aura) can survive direct hits from rocket arty and mortars? Yea that was also a worthless change. I much prefer my units dying in a blink than getting out with a sliver of health and their vet.

Also those panzerwerfer that die in 1 hit, could you imagine how absolutely useless it would be if you needed twice as many shots to kill it? Would you just think to yourself "uuugh I know that should be dead right now and would be if it wasn't for that command panzer but geeze I wish I never got that hunk of junk that literally just saved my rocket Truck" I know I would because we all know that 10% damage reduction is worthless!
16 Jul 2019, 05:49 AM
#5
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 123


Minimum 1 extra hit to kill from basicly everything is still a huge buff. A p4 under the aura now requires 5 hits instead of 4 from standard AT effectively making it a 25% bonus to EHP against most sources.
Panther too would require an entire extra hit making it as much HP as a Tiger.
But yea, it would be worthless....

COMPLETELY unrelated, remember when rangers had the *ahem* worthless 10 damage reduction and could tank entire grenades?
Absolutely worthless.

Oh or the snipers with 82hp (vs the 88 of infantry under aura) can survive direct hits from rocket arty and mortars? Yea that was also a worthless change. I much prefer my units dying in a blink than getting out with a sliver of health and their vet.

Also those panzerwerfer that die in 1 hit, could you imagine how absolutely useless it would be if you needed twice as many shots to kill it? Would you just think to yourself "uuugh I know that should be dead right now and would be if it wasn't for that command panzer but geeze I wish I never got that hunk of junk that literally just saved my rocket Truck" I know I would because we all know that 10% damage reduction is worthless!


I don't think you'd use your Command Panzer to babysit snipers or Panzerwerfers. If you, I have some serious questions.

I'm also not sure what your point is regarding Rangers taking grenades. Apples and oranges much?

16 Jul 2019, 06:55 AM
#6
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 2556 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2019, 05:49 AMFarlion


I don't think you'd use your Command Panzer to babysit snipers or Panzerwerfers. If you, I have some serious questions.

I'm also not sure what your point is regarding Rangers taking grenades. Apples and oranges much?



Think no more, he is right and you're wrong. If you don't use your Command Panzer to babysit your units you are definitively doing everything wrong with it.

OP question is interesting, I also thought the reduction to 10% was applied.
16 Jul 2019, 09:35 AM
#7
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3576

i literally saw it 0 times
16 Jul 2019, 10:49 AM
#8
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 315

Imo more sensible choice would be turning damage reduction into munition costing aura, which has time of effect and cooldown. This would ensue that command tank requires timing between using it and when its not avaiable. My other choice would be to turn it into normal stubby tank that you can purchache but requires fuel costing upgrade to be command tank and it could be upgraded with only one tank
16 Jul 2019, 11:41 AM
#9
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2019, 03:50 AMFarlion
It is actually fine. 10 % would make it worthless.


That's not true at all, damage reduction is a massive buff. Rangers had 10% reduction just on themselves and that was deemed OP.

I don't know how you think that's apples and oranges. It's damage reduction in both cases... Except in p4 case, you have tanks taking an extra shot to kill. Explain how you could possibly view that as worthless
16 Jul 2019, 11:47 AM
#10
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 8


Could you elaborate more on the "too strong" definition of yours?

It is also worth saying that game balance is prioritized to 1v1's then teamgames, that might have been the reason why CPz4 wasnt nerfed at all.


The nerf is still listed in changelog. It was supposed to happen, there isn't a reason it just a mistake

I said why it's too strong, it buffs allie units. You can easily nerf it in teams without touching it in 1v1. Make it effect only your units...
16 Jul 2019, 11:58 AM
#11
avatar of Willy Pete

Posts: 8

i literally saw it 0 times


Good for you? Its very common in team game
16 Jul 2019, 12:06 PM
#12
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 783 | Subs: 1



The nerf is still listed in changelog. It was supposed to happen, there isn't a reason it just a mistake

I said why it's too strong, it buffs allie units. You can easily nerf it in teams without touching it in 1v1. Make it effect only your units...


Agreed, aura buffs should only apply to your own units. It's what turned the Command Panther from a good option to an insane option (comon, an 80 (!) range aura that applies to all allied units and gives a +20 sight bonus that gets multiplied further by spotting scopes!? And people wonder why you only see Jaeger Armor + Spec Ops in 2v2)

I think the -20% damage reduction itself is fine, it's one of the few ways to get competitive infantry lategame as Ostheer. I would like to see it locked behind tech however. If the aura does get nerfed, better compensate with a price reduction or giving another bonus (like -10% damage reduction and -10% reload or something).
16 Jul 2019, 12:43 PM
#13
avatar of Ara Ara Fufufu

Posts: 9

Permanently Banned
People to this day scream about damage reduction on KV's and how it was OP on rangers or how HQ Aura was OP but if it's on axis it's fine. This thing is everywhere on team games parked behind a shotblocker and not that expensive for what it brings to the table.
The aura should be nerfed to 10% or tuned like the Soviet HQ one so it would actually require some input and brain to use instead of parking it and forgetting about it
16 Jul 2019, 12:46 PM
#14
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1775 | Subs: 2

Rangers had 10% reduction just on themselves and that was deemed OP.


It wasn't deemed OP, the biggest reason it was removed (replaced) because it was an invisible modifier that wasn't consistant with any other infantry squad, that shouldn't have been in the game.
16 Jul 2019, 13:15 PM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300



It wasn't deemed OP, the biggest reason it was removed (replaced) because it was an invisible modifier that wasn't consistant with any other infantry squad, that shouldn't have been in the game.


It was poor wording, but the end result is the same. I agree it needed to go, so does this. Do you have a thought on the actual topic?
16 Jul 2019, 14:36 PM
#16
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1461



That's not true at all, damage reduction is a massive buff. Rangers had 10% reduction just on themselves and that was deemed OP.

...

Inaccurate.

Rangers damage reduction was removed to normalize infantry, not because of it being OP.
So they did with SU sniper, dev's made it 1 man,, to set up some patterns for new players go get the game mechanics.

Unless every become a stats bookworm and read every single patch note they wouldn't notice there was a damage reduction on rangers
16 Jul 2019, 15:48 PM
#17
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2877 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Jul 2019, 05:49 AMFarlion


I don't think you'd use your Command Panzer to babysit snipers or Panzerwerfers. If you, I have some serious questions.

I'm also not sure what your point is regarding Rangers taking grenades. Apples and oranges much?


You don't have to babysit in order to get the effect. Odds are you will have the CP on the front. K kw what else is on the front? Eneto snipe! Know what happens when you move rocket arty near the front? They get way more accurate and much more wipey.
Both those units can find themselves in the CP aura while on the front.
16 Jul 2019, 17:05 PM
#18
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300


Inaccurate.

Rangers damage reduction was removed to normalize infantry, not because of it being OP.


Sander already said this, and I already addressed it:


It was poor wording, but the end result is the same. I agree it needed to go, so does this.


You can say it wasn't nerfed "because it was OP", but it was most certainly an OP feature. It was "replaced" with more target size reduction, which has no impact on your ability to survive a grenade. Anyone suggesting that rangers are just as good without it is wrong, so the end result is the same, it was a nerf (and a rightful one)

Not to mention, if were talking about "consistency" then I would love for you to tell me whats consistent about saying that you nerfed a unit in the changelog, but not actually doing it


Unless every become a stats bookworm and read every single patch note they wouldn't notice there was a damage reduction on rangers


Completely untrue, you could see it if they took explosive damage while at full health. Models that should've died just didnt
16 Jul 2019, 17:27 PM
#19
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3576

Ok up until someone pointed out that the change never applied no one said a word about this unit, the moment u found out , it’s a problem? If this is not confirmation bias I don’t know what it is
16 Jul 2019, 17:36 PM
#20
avatar of DerbyHat

Posts: 783 | Subs: 1

Ok up until someone pointed out that the change never applied no one said a word about this unit, the moment u found out , it’s a problem? If this is not confirmation bias I don’t know what it is


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