Login

russian armor

Why all the hate for riflemen?

8 Jul 2019, 08:42 AM
#21
avatar of flyingpancake

Posts: 77 | Subs: 1

I have been maining a us rifle company build lately and I thought I put it my 2 cents on the matter.
Quite frankly Rifleman are pretty great for what they are. Yes Sturms are a problem but I always make sure my rifle squad is accompanied by one RE in early game. When this happens I just charge both of them to close range like they are smg troops and behold, the sturm is forced to retreat and my second duo is already on the frontline.

For those curious my early build is: Rifle, RE, Rifle, RE, Lieutenant followed by a MG or a Captain depending on the map.

I give my 2 Rifleman 2 Bazookas that make them in to dedicated anti tank units with sprint and snares.
I give my RE's flamethrowers and BAR's for cqc units.
I give my officers BAR's for mid range dps.

As long as I don't make any stupid plays this seems to be a pretty good strategy for early game dominace even against okw.
8 Jul 2019, 08:59 AM
#22
avatar of hooosh

Posts: 10

On the forums, many seem to have a "Riflemen are bad and cost inefficient" attitude that I do not share.


Who.
8 Jul 2019, 10:47 AM
#23
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 254

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Jul 2019, 08:59 AMhooosh

Who.


Come join the coh2.org discord for your daily dose of anti riflemen propaganda.
8 Jul 2019, 12:26 PM
#24
avatar of Stormjäger

Posts: 254



Nerfing OKW and UKFs openings is about just USF? Not at all about the eastern front factions who need to build buidlings just to unlock units as strong as the ones UKF and OKW start with?


No thanks, we don't need USF to dominate the meta again with their bullshit.
8 Jul 2019, 12:29 PM
#25
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 557

Overwhelming is the only tactic OKW has vs USF in the early game, if they cant do that they will get steamrolled by USF early game, and once mid game comes they'll have no chance
8 Jul 2019, 12:36 PM
#26
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300



No thanks, we don't need USF to dominate the meta again with their bullshit.


What the hell are you talking about? My post was about the Eastern factions....
8 Jul 2019, 13:39 PM
#27
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 557



What the hell are you talking about? My post was about the Eastern factions....


Which eastern front army struggle vs OKW openings? Soviets with ther penals or clown cars??? quite clearly, nerfing OKW early game would only be done to suit USF
8 Jul 2019, 13:54 PM
#28
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300



Which eastern front army struggle vs OKW openings? Soviets with ther penals or clown cars??? quite clearly, nerfing OKW early game would only be done to suit USF


Why are you only talking about OKWs nerfed opening? I was talking about both OKW and UKF. If both of them are being nerfed they clearly aren't just catering to US. How does UKF nerfs help them. If you pick and choose which things to focus on you can make up whatever story you want

Furthermore penal+clown car isn't just a strong option against OKW, it's the only one. If it doesn't work you're pretty much screwed
8 Jul 2019, 14:03 PM
#29
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1349

Sturms are really good vs USF early game. RE are meh and just used for capping but Sturms can be aggressive and capture buildings and hide behind bushes for a nice ambush on your first Riflemen squad. Plus OKW has the advantage of cheaper volks as meat shield and sturm flanks.
8 Jul 2019, 14:09 PM
#30
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 1266



Which eastern front army struggle vs OKW openings? Soviets with ther penals or clown cars??? quite clearly, nerfing OKW early game would only be done to suit USF



No it wouldn`t. Soviets early game is horrible vs OKW. Only hope is M3 and praying it doesn´t die to Raketenwerfer mines or bad pathing after being blobbed down.
8 Jul 2019, 15:06 PM
#31
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 557



Why are you only talking about OKWs nerfed opening? I was talking about both OKW and UKF. If both of them are being nerfed they clearly aren't just catering to US. How does UKF nerfs help them. If you pick and choose which things to focus on you can make up whatever story you want

Furthermore penal+clown car isn't just a strong option against OKW, it's the only one. If it doesn't work you're pretty much screwed


Nobody said UFK early game specifically is being nerfed only some possible change to IS, could be ther vet or to do with duel upgrades.

Doesn't change the fact that clown car+penal is still powerful a tactic vs OKW.
8 Jul 2019, 15:09 PM
#32
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 557




No it wouldn`t. Soviets early game is horrible vs OKW. Only hope is M3 and praying it doesn´t die to Raketenwerfer mines or bad pathing after being blobbed down.


you mean praying the m3 will walk into your pupchen and do some additional prayers that it wont end up taking 2 years to aim, miss or hit the fkin ground. M3 with its moblity and firepower will dominate every other unit OKW has early game
8 Jul 2019, 15:42 PM
#33
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 1120



Come join the coh2.org discord for your daily dose of anti riflemen propaganda.


I never see anyone on there when I play. As someone who plays a lot of USF in 2v2-4v4, I don't think there is really a problem with rifles. The only thing that unbalances the early game is the Sturmpio, which doesn't scale well into late game. It does seem like rifles shouldn't be any more expensive than volks but that is a can of worms that I wouldn't want to open. Rifles trade okay with volks if the engagement starts at short range. They're just not good at long range against either volks or pf's. That does seem odd because it seems like it should be the other way around given the weapons used.

Before the RE nerf, the easy way around the early game problem with the Sturmpio was making an extra RE or two. Now it doesn't seem like such a great idea.

An equally relevant question would be why isn't there some hate for the OKW middle game. The luchs and puma seem too easily countered in team games. LEIG's force retreats but don't kill much - even with the incendiary rounds. The double clocked raketens seem like a lot of unfun cheese (I'd much rather have a PAK40). The MG34 has great suppression but shoots marshmallows (not sure where they found the marshmallows, it's not like you can find those in Deutschland). The walking stuka is hit-or-miss and seems much better against campers than active players. Maybe all this is a L2P issue on my part but the middle game seems like a challenge.
8 Jul 2019, 16:09 PM
#34
avatar of Grim

Posts: 686

I think the issue with Riflemen is that they don't behave like a unit that is just 20mp cheaper than penals and then they face against volks which in turn act stronger than their price.

They're just in a weird grey area until you deck them out with double bars. But until then they are pretty meh I think. Much of the game depends on how you fare against that first Sturm squad. If RNG deals you a bad hand then it can easily be a gg because the OKW will just out man you with volks heavily from then on.
8 Jul 2019, 16:53 PM
#35
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1300


you mean praying the m3 will walk into your pupchen and do some additional prayers that it wont end up taking 2 years to aim, miss or hit the fkin ground.


Yeah god forbid a cheap AT gun in your hq miss 1 shot against a 15 fuel light vehicle from a 10 fuel building.

It's certainly a strong tactic. But it's the ONLY one against OKW, t2 is almost completely unviable, t1 is a requirement. There's a reason cons just got a buff and maxims are probably getting even more...


Nobody said UFK early game specifically is being nerfed only some possible change to IS


Doesn't matter if it's early or not, the person was saying this is catering to US. Nerfing UKF is not catering to US. Not to mention it's probably a bolster nerf, and people have been rushing that upgrade quite a bit
9 Jul 2019, 04:12 AM
#36
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2741 | Subs: 1

They killed all my mans.
9 Jul 2019, 04:25 AM
#37
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 222

Problem with Riflemen is that they struggle against Volks in the early game due to their slightly higher reinforce cost, they are just about even with a single BAR vs the STG upgrade but then they become extremely powerful once they get a 2nd BAR and hit Vet 2-3. I would like BAR's to get nerfed a bit but then become cheaper so getting 2 of them doesn't cost as much but wouldn't have as good of performance. Right now it takes 20+ minutes to be able to Double BAR up your 3-4 squads.
9 Jul 2019, 08:51 AM
#38
avatar of Hannibal
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 383

Problem with Riflemen is that they struggle against Volks in the early game due to their slightly higher reinforce cost, they are just about even with a single BAR vs the STG upgrade but then they become extremely powerful once they get a 2nd BAR and hit Vet 2-3. I would like BAR's to get nerfed a bit but then become cheaper so getting 2 of them doesn't cost as much but wouldn't have as good of performance. Right now it takes 20+ minutes to be able to Double BAR up your 3-4 squads.

But does it really come down to Rilfe vs Volks in your opinion?
Sure, Riflemen are more expensive both to buy and reinforce, but they're also a good tad stronger.
Also you'll loose about 20 models in the early game, which would cost you 60 manpower more. That's not that much and by far not enough to cost you the game.
9 Jul 2019, 10:13 AM
#39
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 1461

USF vs okw is an annoying early game, both factions tend to complain about mainline performance because both ones do the same,rush into cover win map control and retreat when outnumbered.

Remove volks sandbags and change their weapon upgrade and you will never ever see the riflemen UP sentence again
9 Jul 2019, 23:27 PM
#40
avatar of Clarity

Posts: 222


But does it really come down to Rilfe vs Volks in your opinion?
Sure, Riflemen are more expensive both to buy and reinforce, but they're also a good tad stronger.
Also you'll loose about 20 models in the early game, which would cost you 60 manpower more. That's not that much and by far not enough to cost you the game.

The issue more of stems from the STG upgrade and Flame nades being easily accessible with teching. Whereas Rifles need to side tech in order to get weapon upgrades and nades. Although Volks and Rifles are pretty even when the Rifles have 1 BAR and the Volks have STG's, the Volks have sandbags and nades that can deny cover are hard to deal with. Riflemen start to slap Volks though once they get 2x BAR's. That is why most people go for Assault Engineers or Pathfinders against OKW these days because they are more efficient overall.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Livestreams

unknown 45
unknown 4
unknown 41

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • U.S. Forces flag T.R. Seeking
  • U.S. Forces flag T.R. Thoton
  • Oberkommando West flag BlackWolf
  • Ostheer flag Hurin
uploaded by Hurin

Board Info

126 users are online: 3 members and 123 guests
Stark, Vykraznar, piwawsky
244 posts in the last 24h
1942 posts in the last week
8623 posts in the last month
Registered members: 54739
Welcome our newest member, ClayAnderson
Most online: 805 users on 28 Oct 2018, 01:04 AM