Login

russian armor

ISU-152 needs some love.

Thoughts on my crappy machinations?
Option Distribution Votes
27%
23%
50%
Total votes: 22
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
2 Jul 2019, 16:00 PM
#1
avatar of Raviloli

Posts: 66

It has come to my attention over the last half a year of playing this game that the ISU-152 is overlooked and overly expensive for its performance in comparison to other soviet heavies. I might just be retarded and something like this has been tried before, and I have heard of it being overpowered before its ammo selection was split into AP and HE.

What I'd like to suggest is to build on top of that division, the HE performance against infantry is perfectly adequate, and while the ISU-152 (probably, idk lol) has a claim on being the most powerful infantry-wiping tank in the game, its bad mobility and casemate makes it an inefficient infantry destroyer (except on lane maps, maybe.)

The AP performance is what needs some looking at, and I think it should deal 300 (maybe even 320) damage like the Elefant and Jagdtiger, it makes absolutely zero sense that a 152mmm shell does less damage than a shell of nearly half its diameter (and definetely less than half its size in terms of shrapnel and explosive). This could also help it in deterring other vehicles from rushing it, as it stands it is more expensive AT than 2 SU-85's, with only the firepower of 1.5 (in terms of damage output, but it's less than that considering two SU-85s can fire off 4 shells with 2 more nearly loaded by the time the ISU can fire its second shell.)

TL;DR: Buff AP damage because it can't even deter a Pz 4 atm.
2 Jul 2019, 16:05 PM
#2
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned
In a vacuum Ele can't deter a 34/85 either because it will just drive next to it.
ISU has almost KT Armor (340 armor ) so it can tank shots forward, if you let yourself be flanked and dont support your assault gun its a l2p issue

You want the infantry wiping potential with huge range AND Elephant grade AP ammo to beat the Hans out of their tanks? Lol no. As far as I know ISU is still somewhat meta, can deal with both targets and deals enough burst damage to armor. It is not a dedicated TD like Elephant. It also gets a pintle MG against infantry, which ele or jagd does not. Soviets ALSO get Guards AND Mark target in the commander which adds bonus damage.

Also "its bigger gun so needs to deal more damage" doesnt apply . 122mm? of IS-2 deals the same damage as a goddamn peashooter 76mm because logic doesnt apply in this game sadly
2 Jul 2019, 16:20 PM
#3
avatar of Raviloli

Posts: 66

In a vacuum Ele can't deter a 34/85 either because it will just drive next to it.
ISU has almost KT Armor (340 armor ) so it can tank shots forward, if you let yourself be flanked and dont support your assault gun its a l2p issue

You want the infantry wiping potential with huge range AND Elephant grade AP ammo to beat the Hans out of their tanks? Lol no. As far as I know ISU is still somewhat meta, can deal with both targets and deals enough burst damage to armor. It is not a dedicated TD like Elephant. It also gets a pintle MG against infantry, which ele or jagd does not. Soviets ALSO get Guards AND Mark target in the commander which adds bonus damage.

Also "its bigger gun so needs to deal more damage" doesnt apply . 122mm? of IS-2 deals the same damage as a goddamn peashooter 76mm because logic doesnt apply in this game sadly


It is more about deterring the flank's presence in general, I rarely risk a T-34 dive into a superheavy because anyone with half a brain is going to keep their Elefant/Jagd defended. On top of that, in team games where the superheavies are actually used, there's likely to be another tank nearby to come in and save it, and the axis will usually win in that engagement unless circumstances heavily favor the allies (no MGs to supress infantry, which there usually is atleast one of.)

Except the AP/HE split is exactly what prevents it from wiping infantry AND tanks, the pintle MG is unimpressive and tacks an additional muni cost on top of it, the Elefant has a bow MG, which is what makes it an Elefant and not a Ferdinand. It's more expensive than an IS-2, less mobile overall and limited to a casemate, why shouldn't it be better than the IS-2 at destroying things?

I'd be perfectly in favor of rebalancing damage to be accurate according to caliber, though that'll never happen, I still pointed it out because the fact that an 88 deals more damage than a 152 is utterly ridiculous.
2 Jul 2019, 16:20 PM
#4
avatar of Grim

Posts: 757

The only thing I would change if I could would be its pathing ai. Moving it from point A to B is so painful.
2 Jul 2019, 16:26 PM
#5
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1499 | Subs: 3

I hope the next patch (which will affect the changes in heavy tanks) will change the IS-2 and ISU-152 these heavy tanks hard suck. These are so rare tanks in the game that they can be called an extinct animal species.
2 Jul 2019, 16:30 PM
#6
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1085

Both IS tanks are better in 1v1 and 2v2 where ele and jagd are rare. Buffing them would swing the balance too hard against the smaller game modes. Coh2 is balanced around 1v1 and 2v2
2 Jul 2019, 16:32 PM
#7
avatar of Warspite

Posts: 45

Permanently Banned


It is more about deterring the flank's presence in general, I rarely risk a T-34 dive into a superheavy because anyone with half a brain is going to keep their Elefant/Jagd defended. On top of that, in team games where the superheavies are actually used, there's likely to be another tank nearby to come in and save it, and the axis will usually win in that engagement unless circumstances heavily favor the allies (no MGs to supress infantry, which there usually is atleast one of.)

Except the AP/HE split is exactly what prevents it from wiping infantry AND tanks, the pintle MG is unimpressive and tacks an additional muni cost on top of it, the Elefant has a bow MG, which is what makes it an Elefant and not a Ferdinand. It's more expensive than an IS-2, less mobile overall and limited to a casemate, why shouldn't it be better than the IS-2 at destroying things?

I'd be perfectly in favor of rebalancing damage to be accurate according to caliber, though that'll never happen, I still pointed it out because the fact that an 88 deals more damage than a 152 is utterly ridiculous.


And anyone with half a brain knows t-34/85 rush with mark target takes care of Ele. By the time they have an Ele you should have plenty of 85's unless u got outplayed hard. Same goes for ISU-152 except its even harder to dislodge without a superheavy for axis, soviets have all the needed tools to get rid of one. I just mentioned one but on top of that you have Il-2 and tank hunter drops, the new rocket strike and ram. Lol even satchels tbh.

It's split but it still has the ability to do both like the Sherman and we all know what a nightmare HE sherman is to ostheer 4-man infantry. Point is it's an assault gun and more of a generalist rather than a dedicated Heavy TD like the Elephant which cant do anything to infantry. Also since when was the pintle mg bad? It also works as AA.

But..it is? It has superior HE to IS-2 and far more range to do so. It also deals more damage per shot at far range outside of harms way unlike the IS-2 which is a heavy breakthrough tank. You also have bunker buster rounds. And as mentioned you have mark target in the same doctrine which boosts your damage by 30%, making you deal more damage per shot than an Elephant to enemy armor.

It is utterly ridiculous yes but realism comes after balance. And as said as far as I know theyre meta in 2v2 atleast
2 Jul 2019, 16:40 PM
#8
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

ISU-152 is THE best heavy tank soviet has, it has borderline OP AI and very good AT with 120 deflection damage, all while having same range as elephant, just so u know it still kills panther in 4 shoot like before even after the changes

the only real hard counter is the jadgtiger as it out ranges it, the elephant can lose to it if played well, mass at infantry get countered, so u could try to swarm it but the cost would be higher than the isu itself
2 Jul 2019, 16:41 PM
#9
avatar of PanzerFutz

Posts: 95

In real life, the penetrative ability of a shell is (mostly) determined by the weight of the shell multiplied by the velocity at which it's travelling. The weight of the shell is (mostly) determined by the caliber of the gun, while the velocity at impact is slightly less than the velocity as the shell leaves the muzzle.

The reason the 88 on the King Tiger and the Elephant could outshoot the ISU-152 is because the Kwk43 gun had a muzzle velocity of 3,340 fps, while the M40 gun of the ISU-152 had a muzzle velocity of 1,900 fps. The 75 mm gun on the Panther fired at 3,068 fps which is why that particular "pea-shooter" was so deadly. The JS-2 was on roughly level terms with the Tiger I, having a slightly lower muzzle velocity but a heavier projectile.

In the context of the game, the ISU-152 should only be as powerful an AT platform as the Axis heavies if it's AI ability gets severely nerfed.
2 Jul 2019, 18:39 PM
#10
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1395

ISU is definitely meta in team games. I just think its anti tank capabilities are garbage for its price. I would rather just see this more like KV2.
2 Jul 2019, 18:53 PM
#11
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

ISU is definitely meta in team games. I just think its anti tank capabilities are garbage for its price. I would rather just see this more like KV2.
-Weapon penetration from 200/180/160 to 170/150/140
-Deflection damage to 50%

it has worse pen than isu 152 but same deflection damage
2 Jul 2019, 19:32 PM
#12
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 171

It has come to my attention over the last half a year of playing this game that the ISU-152 is overlooked and overly expensive for its performance in comparison to other soviet heavies. I might just be retarded and something like this has been tried before, and I have heard of it being overpowered before its ammo selection was split into AP and HE.

What I'd like to suggest is to build on top of that division, the HE performance against infantry is perfectly adequate, and while the ISU-152 (probably, idk lol) has a claim on being the most powerful infantry-wiping tank in the game, its bad mobility and casemate makes it an inefficient infantry destroyer (except on lane maps, maybe.)

The AP performance is what needs some looking at, and I think it should deal 300 (maybe even 320) damage like the Elefant and Jagdtiger, it makes absolutely zero sense that a 152mmm shell does less damage than a shell of nearly half its diameter (and definetely less than half its size in terms of shrapnel and explosive). This could also help it in deterring other vehicles from rushing it, as it stands it is more expensive AT than 2 SU-85's, with only the firepower of 1.5 (in terms of damage output, but it's less than that considering two SU-85s can fire off 4 shells with 2 more nearly loaded by the time the ISU can fire its second shell.)

TL;DR: Buff AP damage because it can't even deter a Pz 4 atm.


It is a pretty strong Tank in 2 great teamgame doctrines with mechanizd support often being the favourite because Guards, Mark Target and camouflaged AT-Guns covering the "weaker points" (its usually stronger in AI performance then AT).
The P4 problem is never one if you can support your ISU-152 someway decent (with mark target the ISU needs 2! shots and engage at way longer distances then the P4 can which also gets penned pretty much every single time while being nearly unable to penetrate at the front [not exactly sure about rear but I think it didn't always pen just often]) also never forget the combination of the guards vehicle pin or the IL-2 bombs whith the ISU-152 if you are fighting heavier targets (Ele, JT and whateve you want to spend your munitions on)
2 Jul 2019, 19:45 PM
#13
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3258 | Subs: 1

Isu as an AI unit that CAN fight tanks. That's a bonus not its job. There is no reason for it to be absolutely exceptional at it, although even now it is rather good. If you need AT the su85 is one of the best YDs in the game..
2 Jul 2019, 19:54 PM
#14
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002

Isu as an AI unit that CAN fight tanks. That's a bonus not its job. There is no reason for it to be absolutely exceptional at it, although even now it is rather good. If you need AT the su85 is one of the best YDs in the game..
it's exceptional at it too tho, not as elephant but really it's almost there, it has 120 deflection damage so even if it's pen is at normal TD lvl it's still very strong and obv the 70 range
2 Jul 2019, 20:31 PM
#15
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3258 | Subs: 1

it's exceptional at it too tho, not as elephant but really it's almost there, it has 120 deflection damage so even if it's pen is at normal TD lvl it's still very strong and obv the 70 range

I wouldn't say exceptional simply due to the slow ROF. Good? For sure but not great. If there are no soft targets it can definitely semi reliability help with armour and that's more than most AI tanks can say
2 Jul 2019, 20:49 PM
#16
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 752 | Subs: 3

As someone who loves the ISU a lot - It's great. It's not a direct counter to Ele and JT of course, BUT... BUT IT KILLS INF. Holding a point with an ISU is just great. Baiting Elefants and JT's also works awesome
2 Jul 2019, 21:13 PM
#17
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4002


I wouldn't say exceptional simply due to the slow ROF. Good? For sure but not great. If there are no soft targets it can definitely semi reliability help with armour and that's more than most AI tanks can say
is 3 more sec than elfant is bad ? btw 240 damage if pen and 120 if it does not is still very good
2 Jul 2019, 21:14 PM
#18
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6447 | Subs: 1

In real life, the penetrative ability of a shell is (mostly) determined by the weight of the shell multiplied by the velocity at which it's travelling. The weight of the shell is (mostly) determined by the caliber of the gun, while the velocity at impact is slightly less than the velocity as the shell leaves the muzzle.

The reason the 88 on the King Tiger and the Elephant could outshoot the ISU-152 is because the Kwk43 gun had a muzzle velocity of 3,340 fps, while the M40 gun of the ISU-152 had a muzzle velocity of 1,900 fps. The 75 mm gun on the Panther fired at 3,068 fps which is why that particular "pea-shooter" was so deadly. The JS-2 was on roughly level terms with the Tiger I, having a slightly lower muzzle velocity but a heavier projectile.

In the context of the game, the ISU-152 should only be as powerful an AT platform as the Axis heavies if it's AI ability gets severely nerfed.

Tank does not have to be penetrated to be destroyed.

The effectiveness of AT weapons has to do with energy. AP rounds use kinetic energy to destroy tank while HE explosives use chemical energy.

Real life fact have secondary role in the units performance, else the Brumbar should have a similar penetration and damage of ISU-152 since it was 15 cm Caliber gun.
3 Jul 2019, 00:45 AM
#19
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 201

Is this a joke? The ISU-152 is hands the down the best heavy in this game.
3 Jul 2019, 04:50 AM
#20
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2691

jump backJump back to quoted post2 Jul 2019, 20:49 PMd0ggY
As someone who loves the ISU a lot - It's great. It's not a direct counter to Ele and JT of course, BUT... BUT IT KILLS INF. Holding a point with an ISU is just great. Baiting Elefants and JT's also works awesome

+1

Blasting infantry to an alternate dimension from almost ele range is definitely something I do not regret picking a commander for and paying lots of resources for. It's also the only allied tank that doesn't get practically hardcountered by ele or jagd so that's a bonus too, and the dshk makes gives it kinda decent AA (lol).

It's not really for AT anyway, that's essentially just a bonus and it shouldn't be anywhere near as good as ele or jagd at AT because it can actually kill inf well.
1 user is browsing this thread: 1 guest

Ladders Top 10

  • #
    Steam Alias
    W
    L
    %
    Streak
Data provided by Relic Relic Entertainment

Replay highlight

VS
  • Oberkommando West flag N1cko
  • Oberkommando West flag Scotch1
  • Soviets flag Frosty
  • Soviets flag Beatricks Swire
uploaded by Frost

Board Info

134 users are online: 11 members and 123 guests
Vez, KingIcarus, Tric, Widerstreit, blvckdream, TheRestaurant, Frost, A_E, Smaug, study-clerk, Jilet
157 posts in the last 24h
1140 posts in the last week
4960 posts in the last month
Registered members: 69458
Welcome our newest member, han816dq
Most online: 918 users on 27 Oct 2019, 01:03 AM