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Ostwind's penetrations

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22 Jun 2019, 16:41 PM
#81
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:38 PMKirrik

So you just proved what I said? Even in that video when RNG was on T-34 side and every shot on the move hit Ostwinds, they still won.


In a real game this fight would never happen. He's literally making these videos just for you, but in a real game you would bump into another unit during all this chasing. One conscript with an AT nade and the fight goes against the ostwinds...

You're really picking out the things you want and ignoring everything else
22 Jun 2019, 16:41 PM
#82
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



No, we are clearly only testing scenarios in which the T-34 player has 0 micro skills and has no other units or defenses.

And of course Ostwinds dont come along with Pgrens with schrecks that can zone T-34s or Paks behind them, not allowing to T-34 to engage in first place? Zis for example gets shredded in seconds by Ostwinds and is not much of a defence against Ostwind spam
22 Jun 2019, 16:42 PM
#83
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



No, we are clearly only testing scenarios in which the T-34 player has 0 micro skills and has no other units or defenses.
btw it was a jk by the obv :luvCarrot:
22 Jun 2019, 16:42 PM
#84
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

sander im sorry to ask u but could u show the same excat thing but with 2 AEC vs 1 ostwind ? i think like that he will shut up


That's two AT vehicles versus an AI vehicle. Everyone expects the AECs to win that.

A more comparable example would be two Panzer IIs versus a T-70, or two Greyhounds versus a Puma.

(spoilers, the double team wins)
22 Jun 2019, 16:42 PM
#85
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Ost t3 is supposed to be an "all rounder with different flavors" tier so I see no issue with disproportionately large investment beating a smaller one of RNG says so. The stugs have some AI (enough that a ball of them is a threat) as well. T3 isnt hard specialist it's slightly refined units. The Ostwind will lose given EQUAL investment. Out numbering the enemy and beating them in detail is a non issue. Not what it is a literal dice roll.
22 Jun 2019, 16:43 PM
#86
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:41 PMKirrik

And of course Ostwinds dont come along with Pgrens with schrecks that can zone T-34s or Paks behind them, not allowing to T-34 to engage in first place?


Two Ostwinds vs 1 t34 is already 180 fuel vs 90. So you cant all of the sudden decide that equivalent numbers matter when you dont like where the conversation is going
22 Jun 2019, 16:43 PM
#87
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

No, we are clearly only testing scenarios in which the T-34 player has 0 micro skills and has no other units or defenses.


In that forest test the T-34 player was actively sabotaging themselves what with deliberately closing to near range and showing their rear armour to the enemy most of the time.
22 Jun 2019, 16:44 PM
#88
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

sander im sorry to ask u but could u show the same excat thing but with 2 AEC vs 1 ostwind ? i think like that he will shut up



22 Jun 2019, 16:45 PM
#89
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:41 PMKirrik
And of course Ostwinds dont come along with Pgrens with schrecks that can zone T-34s or Paks behind them, not allowing to T-34 to engage in first place? Zis for example gets shredded in seconds by Ostwinds and is not much of a defence against Ostwind spam


Why not

just build

a second t-34
22 Jun 2019, 16:45 PM
#90
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



Two Ostwinds vs 1 t34 is already 180 fuel vs 90. So you cant all of the sudden decide that equivalent numbers matter when you dont like where the conversation is going


What if it's a team game and teammate gone T-70? So you should automatically lose and /l out of match because your teammates didnt prepare couple of Ostwinds? Soviets can do the same to an extent, but that requires doctrinal KV-8, tier 4 and alot more fuel to pull game-ending rushes like that
22 Jun 2019, 16:47 PM
#91
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

the supposed op anti LV and anti tank with op AI lost to 2 lv ? what's this kir ? how can it be ?and unlike the ostwind vs t 34 the 2 aec cost almost the same as the ostwind while coming earlier



please nerf AEC now remove it's main gun just leave the mg :romeoPls:
22 Jun 2019, 16:48 PM
#92
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:45 PMKirrik
What if it's a team game and teammate gone T-70?


In a team game neither you nor your teammate don't have any snares or mines or any other form of AT across literally half the map that the Ostwinds need to kill a retreating T-34? Yeah, then it's time to /L I'd say. We can't balance L2P issues.
22 Jun 2019, 16:48 PM
#93
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:45 PMKirrik


What if it's a team game and teammate gone T-70?


Well this opens about 5000 other what ifs. What if the other teammate is British? Get some AECs (see sanders video).

The US at gun will rip an ostwind apart as long as you dont let yourself get circled. Its ROF makes OSt t3 its favorite targets. Get a video of this happening in a live game, that will do more for your argument then any more of this theory crafting.
22 Jun 2019, 16:50 PM
#94
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

the supposed op anti LV and anti tank with op AI lost to 2 lv ? what's this kir ? how can it be ?and unlike the ostwind vs t 34 the 2 aec cost almost the same as the ostwind while coming earlier



My point was is that Ostwind is anti-everything. I never claimed it's best anti-tank unit there is. I pointed out it's ridiculous for it's timing and cost and outright game ending if you and your teammates dont prepare Ostwind rush right now. And thats a tier 3 same fuel cost as single T-34.
22 Jun 2019, 16:51 PM
#95
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:50 PMKirrik


My point was is that Ostwind is anti-everything. I never claimed it's best anti-tank unit there is. I pointed out it's ridiculous for it's timing and cost and outright game ending if you and your teammates dont prepare Ostwind rush right now. And thats a tier 3 same fuel cost as single T-34.
it's anti lv-lt and ai, it's literally the same as centuar but less powerful for more speed and 10 less fuel
btw having to spend x 2 the resouce of a unit does not make it counter it, if so infantry is actually a counter to MGs as 2 of them can beat 1 mg
22 Jun 2019, 16:55 PM
#96
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

sander im sorry to ask u but could u show the same excat thing but with 2 AEC vs 1 ostwind ? i think like that he will shut up

Umm, you DO realize that AEC is anti tank vehicle, not anti infantry?
Dual AEC can't do anything that dual PUMA can't do even better.
22 Jun 2019, 16:56 PM
#97
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573

Okay, we're just going in circles with Centaurs now. It's only the matter of time before people start abusing/spamming Ostwind same way they did JLI, then we'll see whether or not I was right about it
22 Jun 2019, 16:58 PM
#98
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:50 PMKirrik
My point was is that Ostwind is anti-everything. I never claimed it's best anti-tank unit there is. I pointed out it's ridiculous for it's timing and cost and outright game ending if you and your teammates dont prepare Ostwind rush right now. And thats a tier 3 same fuel cost as single T-34.


It's not. The T-34/76 wipes the floor with it.

Your tests are literally quadrupling the Ostwind's effectiveness by invoking Lanchesters Law and it still loses.
22 Jun 2019, 16:58 PM
#99
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:55 PMKatitof

Umm, you DO realize that AEC is anti tank vehicle, not anti infantry?
Dual AEC can't do anything that dual PUMA can't do even better.


What does this have to do with anything? The point is that the AEC is cheaper and can be used to fight the ostwind. If the Ostwind can lose to AECs than its AT clearly isnt THAT good

The puma is wildly irrelevant to this discussion
22 Jun 2019, 16:58 PM
#100
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Jun 2019, 16:50 PMKirrik


My point was is that Ostwind is anti-everything. I never claimed it's best anti-tank unit there is. I pointed out it's ridiculous for it's timing and cost and outright game ending if you and your teammates dont prepare Ostwind rush right now. And thats a tier 3 same fuel cost as single T-34.


Have you ever seen what an t70 can do to axis players that do not prepare for it with any at units or get outplayed? same goes for m20s, UCs, M3A1s or WC51s there are plenty of gamechanging units that can be really effective with the right timings (there are often similar issue with people complaining about tiger rushes in 4v4s). Maybe you should upload a replay where the unit is gamechanging, you might always lose with bad teammates after unlucky matchmaking or if the matchmaker has to guess the elo+ for new teams/players - but if you play on a similar level (with similar mapcontrol, good decision making roughly same apm or awareness for ambushes, grenades and mines) then a proper replay might help others to recognize the ostwind's problems or help you improving your own gameplay.
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