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russian armor

M36 Jackson

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7 Jun 2019, 16:07 PM
#145
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392


...


Not really. The thread is about OP Jackson. Why is it OP? Maybe it is mainly because of its supply.

That is a main-problem of this forum, off-topic is more important than people are thinking.
7 Jun 2019, 16:24 PM
#146
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4159 | Subs: 3

Invised offtopic posts and corresponding replies
7 Jun 2019, 16:48 PM
#147
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1



===========
Infantry lovers think MG42 is OP.
MG42 lovers think mortars are OP.

Late game heavy armor axis players think TDs are op.
Late game infantry blob players think M8A1 is op.

Allied tank spam lovers think Panthers are OP, so... :)
I think it's situational, overall.

===========

[...]


The Ugly Truth.
7 Jun 2019, 17:17 PM
#148
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1



The Ugly Truth.


Yup.

I’m still gonna say that a reworking of the Jackson and M10 being made non doctrinal is a good way to address the “Jackson beats everything” problem.

I suppose if Panzer IVs had bad penetration like Shermans and then you take away the light/economic option by removing the StuG III, then you’d have a similar situation and all you’d see is Panthers.

The fix for the Jackson being so prevalent is to give USF more options, like the M10.
7 Jun 2019, 18:13 PM
#149
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

I suppose if Panzer IVs had bad penetration like Shermans and then you take away the light/economic option by removing the StuG III, then you’d have a similar situation and all you’d see is Panthers.

That's not the case.

Sherman: 140-120-100
PIV: 125-115-110
Cromwell: 135-120-105
T34-76: 120-100-80


Things that could be touched on the Jackson: moving accuracy and cost.
7 Jun 2019, 18:33 PM
#150
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



=============
The Jackson used to do better dmg (200 dmg basic ~240 dmg w ammo) and 125 fuel 12 pop
The fuel went up to ~140 fu, 16 pop and now does less dmg (160 basic, 200 w ammo) I think.
The STUG has better armor and a stun unit ability.
The Firefly has better armor and a stun unit ability.
The Jackson doesn't have this ability it also doesn't have an MG

It's been hard-nerfed since it's early beginnings.
If you insist on it being further nerfed, like most of the players
who insist all allied AT assets being removed from the game, well...

Sherman 76 spam?
The do better damage, have 3x MGs and are cheaper :)

Also, further nerfs to allied AT assets will simply result in yet another nerf to
all axis armor like last time the allied TDs were nerfed (Panther lost armor, hulldown
was nerfed, Command Pz4 was nerfed...)

Why don't you see for yourself?
Play USF and tell us if you can achieve 20+ win streaks by using Jacksons alone.


You are forgetting the GIANT pen buff the Jackson got when it's damage was reduced. It was a reliability buff not a flat nerf.

Also Jackson is the quickest allied TD, who also has usf moving accuracy and a fast turret... Too bad it doesn't have an MG tho?
7 Jun 2019, 19:34 PM
#151
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

55 range would make ot unique as at TD too as it's the only one who would have it, without touching damage and speed, while only making it slightly less safe
7 Jun 2019, 19:47 PM
#152
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3398 | Subs: 1



You are forgetting the GIANT pen buff the Jackson got when it's damage was reduced. It was a reliability buff not a flat nerf.


Yup AND its reload became faster. There were definitely more buffs than nerfs, which is why the cost was increased. Might not even of been enough of an increase
7 Jun 2019, 20:21 PM
#153
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3534 | Subs: 1


That's not the case.

Sherman: 140-120-100
PIV: 125-115-110
Cromwell: 135-120-105
T34-76: 120-100-80


Things that could be touched on the Jackson: moving accuracy and cost.


What about armor?
7 Jun 2019, 20:42 PM
#154
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jun 2019, 20:21 PMEsxile


What about armor?
in order
160
180
160
150
7 Jun 2019, 21:52 PM
#155
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17741 | Subs: 9

in order
160
180(234) & 234
160
150

Fixed, because you can't really ignore it.
7 Jun 2019, 22:30 PM
#156
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


Fixed, because you can't really ignore it.
well okw p4 is more of premium medium with the price tag, btw remove the ost p4 vet/reload armor or we would count vet pen too
7 Jun 2019, 22:39 PM
#157
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3534 | Subs: 1

in order
160
180
160
150


So yes if we look at the Ostheer Pz4, unless you can reach close range with your sherman where you're still losing by a close margin but have a chance to win thanks to your superior moving accuracy, 80% of fights which are occurring at mid and long range are at your disadvantage. That's the problem and reason you rarely see more than one sherman on the field and much more Jacksons.

And its become even worst vs OKW pz4.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for nerf or whatsoever, just stating a fact.
7 Jun 2019, 23:10 PM
#158
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17741 | Subs: 9

well okw p4 is more of premium medium with the price tag, btw remove the ost p4 vet/reload armor or we would count vet pen too

Go ahead and count all that zero vet pen med tanks get.
8 Jun 2019, 00:42 AM
#159
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post7 Jun 2019, 22:39 PMEsxile


So yes if we look at the Ostheer Pz4, unless you can reach close range with your sherman where you're still losing by a close margin but have a chance to win thanks to your superior moving accuracy, 80% of fights which are occurring at mid and long range are at your disadvantage. That's the problem and reason you rarely see more than one sherman on the field and much more Jacksons.

And its become even worst vs OKW pz4.

And don't get me wrong, I'm not calling for nerf or whatsoever, just stating a fact.


Its not terribly unreasonavlble either given the price points.
Thebost p4 is slightly more expensive and also has a slight edge in tank combat. That said all the other allied mediums have advantages that manage to balance that out with a slight micro requirement. Sherman has its great moving modifier, cromwell is zippy as fuck, T34 is cheap....

Its not like the p4 wins by a huge margin. It's got an edge and that can be overcome by a better allied player. Seems reasonable.
8 Jun 2019, 07:29 AM
#160
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13409 | Subs: 1

The theory that M36 must completely shut the PzIV because the PzIV has the edge over Sherman does not hold water.

If one add all the utility that comes with Sherman like crew, smoke, HE and cost the units is as cost efficient if not superior to PzIV.

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