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russian armor

Easy fixes to existing OKW commanders

6 Apr 2019, 05:58 AM
#1
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 405

Hi guys,
i will post some suggestions to improve 2ndtier OKW commanders and make them more attractive. To achieve that goal some nerfs to "Specops" and "Overwatch" are needed.
Here are the rules:
  • You can only replace / rework 2 abilities
  • 1 reworked ability and 1 replacement is also possible

    So, lets start! Get ready for a lot of text:)

    NO changes needed:
    - Fortifications doctrine, fine as it is!

    Only 1 fix needed:
    - Scavenge doctrine
    Only 1 reworked Ostwind away from being really good

    - Luftwaffe Ground Forces
    Out: Heavy fortifications
    replaced by: Weapon supply drop (PAk40, Gr34)
    This is a no brainer: Supply drops were used a lot for Falls during the war. Providing the PAK40 this commander will be a lot more attractive without further changes.

    - Overwatch doctrine:
    Out: leFH
    replaced by: "Mark target" / or Goliath occupying 1 commander slot again
    I would really like this ability in one of the OKW commanders and it fits to the theme. Combo of leFH + Sector Assault is too strong, makes "Fortress doc" unnecessary less attractive

    - Elite Armor
    Out: Sturmtiger (moved to Specops)
    Replaced by: Commando Panther
    Changes to Commando Panther:
    - tied to highest Tech building and 12 CP
    - loses "Mark target" (necessary because of the op combo of HEAT/"mark target")
    - fuel cost reduced to 200
    Moving the Commando Panther" to "Elite Armor" makes a lot of sense because the unit can now use all tank related commander slots to compensate for the heavy nerfs. Fits to the theme too.

    - Special operation
    out: Commando Panther
    replaced by: Sturmtiger
    Even with this big change the commander will still be really strong.

    2 fixes needed:
    - Breakthrough doctrine
    Reworked: Sturmofficer (should be the OKW version of the Artillery officer)
    Reworked: Sector Arty
    Combine these changes with the reworked Pfussies and the doctrine is a lot better!

    - Firestorm doctrine:
    Replaced: Opel Truck out, replaced by 251 HT from "German infantry"
    Reworked: Incendiary mun

    These 2 changes would make the doctrine better but buffs to MP40 volks and a reworked veterancy for the flamer hetzer would also be needed.


6 Apr 2019, 06:13 AM
#2
avatar of WAAAGH2000

Posts: 161

Scavenge doctrine
Ostwind---replace by Mortar halftrack or StugE
thoroughly scavenge----remove time punish or scavenge more ammo and fuel
105barrage---less ammo unlock more barrage

Firestorm doctrine
opel truck---remove area and can heal infantry like USF ambulance
Incendiary ammo ---replace by mortar HT or bundle with something or can be used by all mortar

Special operation
radio silence---bundle OST camouflage or rework this ability....or be passive ability,all unit can use single,when active all infantry unit speed -1,vehicle speed-25%,infantry can hide behind cover,vehicle can hide when they didn't move
IR.stg44---bundle with VG mp40 upgrade or can be upgrade for SP or VG....
6 Apr 2019, 06:18 AM
#3
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 405

Scavenge doctrine

Firestorm doctrine
opel truck---remove area and can heal infantry like USF ambulance

Special operation
radio silence---bundle OST camouflage

Like these ideas!
6 Apr 2019, 07:47 AM
#4
avatar of Ismeckye

Posts: 41

Ah, yes a 50 range self spotting commando panther being able to call arti onto unsuspecting anti tank guns.
Then rush in with puma and commando panther to mop up the armor.
6 Apr 2019, 07:52 AM
#5
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 1

Ah, yes a 50 range self spotting commando panther being able to call arti onto unsuspecting anti tank guns.
Then rush in with puma and commando panther to mop up the armor.

Because when talking about adjusting commanders obviously it's just copy and paste right? No further adjustment just take that and jam it in there. Maybe, just maybe consider that rebalancing includes.... Balancing.
6 Apr 2019, 08:47 AM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 5018 | Subs: 1

ST does not really fit elite armor.

It can not benefit from Heat rounds and commanders. Building it means one less unit that can benefit from it.

Commanders also provide a barrage that can do a similar job as the ST.

I would actually move it over-watch instead of Lefh.
6 Apr 2019, 08:52 AM
#7
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 12533 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2019, 08:47 AMVipper
ST does not really fit elite armor.

It can not benefit from Heat rounds and commanders. Building it means one less unit that can benefit from it.

Commanders also provide a barrage that can do a similar job as the ST.

I would actually move it over-watch instead of Lefh.


Not every unit benefits from every single ability in the doctrine its in.
Just like pioneers won't get G43, obviously ST won't get HEAT rounds.
6 Apr 2019, 09:32 AM
#8
avatar of Hater

Posts: 417

Is this a fix? Looks like "op, nerf plz" to me at some points (lefh, com panther)...
6 Apr 2019, 09:37 AM
#9
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2019, 08:47 AMVipper
ST does not really fit elite armor.

It can not benefit from Heat rounds and commanders. Building it means one less unit that can benefit from it.

Commanders also provide a barrage that can do a similar job as the ST.

I would actually move it over-watch instead of Lefh.


To be fair wherever you move the ST it's going to be a waste because the unit itself is without use.

But if you did move the ST into overwatch what would you out in spec ops? It very much can't be the lefh if flares remain... I do agree with the OP that the command panther in elite armour is a good change to break up a very powerful commander and bring balance to the force the commanders
6 Apr 2019, 09:43 AM
#10
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2483 | Subs: 2

I like the Luftwaffe suggestion. But I think you should put a bit more thought in the heavy tank reshuffle, might be a better idea to have the Jagdtiger moved to Elite Armor for example and have the ST in Breakthrough to at least comply with the themes of the commanders if nothing else.
6 Apr 2019, 09:46 AM
#11
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 1

I like the Luftwaffe suggestion. But I think you should put a bit more thought in the heavy tank reshuffle, might be a better idea to have the Jagdtiger moved to Elite Armor for example and have the ST in Breakthrough to at least comply with the themes of the commanders if nothing else.


I do like that direction for the heavy tank shuffle. But JT with HEAT if it's allowed to use them........ Ouch.

Also I think luftwaffe is my least favorite change. That makes them a less suppressive but otherwise better in every way wehrmacht and completely make any other changes pointless...
6 Apr 2019, 09:54 AM
#12
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1630

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2019, 09:32 AMHater
Is this a fix? Looks like "op, nerf plz" to me at some points (lefh, com panther)...


Are you never getting tired of Spec Ops doc in every single 1v1 tournament match? Or Fortifications doc never ever being used since Overwatch rework?
6 Apr 2019, 11:13 AM
#13
avatar of SupremeStefan

Posts: 790

Actually Fortifications doctrine is op its like cancer regiment and royal arty regiment in one u can turtle and deny alies fortifications how is it balanced ? Lefh should be replaced with something else like fuzilers. Back me up vipper
6 Apr 2019, 11:23 AM
#14
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 363

Can we finally replace the Spec Ops flares with a recon plane?

Or at least make the flares land in periodic bursts? Maybe even make able to be shot down?
6 Apr 2019, 11:29 AM
#15
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1427

Or Fortifications doc never ever being used since Overwatch rework?


Pak 43 memecannon is totally worth it IMO. 2 shotting mediums surprise is best surprise.
6 Apr 2019, 11:49 AM
#16
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2032

Command Panther is Elite Armour is stronger than Command Panther in Special Operations. It gets early 221 support and HEAT Pumas.
6 Apr 2019, 12:55 PM
#17
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 405

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Apr 2019, 11:49 AMLago
Command Panther is Elite Armour is stronger than Command Panther in Special Operations. It gets early 221 support and HEAT Pumas.


True, thats why i would take away "mark target". But i agree that Elite Armor is probably the best commander for using Puma.
Lets assume that the Commando Panther could be used elsewhere: Which tank could replace ST? JT is no option because JT+ HEAT is op as hell.

An option that i would like:
- KT reworked and doctrinal unit again
- Available in Elite Armor (same tech requirements like before)

@SeductiveCardbordBox:
munition cost increase for "Flares" + bigger cooldown could also work
6 Apr 2019, 13:00 PM
#18
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2032



True, thats why i would take away "mark target". But i agree that Elite Armor is probably the best commander for using Puma.
Lets assume that the Commando Panther could be used elsewhere: Which tank could replace ST? JT is no option because JT+ HEAT is op as hell.

An option that i would like:
- KT reworked and doctrinal unit again
- Available in Elite Armor (same tech requirements like before)

@SeductiveCardbordBox:
munition cost increase for "Flares" + bigger cooldown could also work


The Command Panther could just be a bog standard Panther for 225 FU and it'd still amongst the strongest commander abilities in OKW. Call-in tanks are incredible in a faction that pays 300 MP 135 FU to tech and runs the risk of losing their tech building.
6 Apr 2019, 14:01 PM
#19
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 194

Isn't the suggestion to Luftwaffe Ground Forces an over-buff?
It combines two new units which OKW doesn't have in one slot. UKF version only contains one new unit. And this doc is already a MP black hole thanks to Falls, dropping team weapons will make the lacking of MP worse.

Why should we make such dramatic change at first place?
Most of the docs are OK except Scavenge and Firestorm
6 Apr 2019, 14:52 PM
#20
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 1630

Oh and I think heavy fortifications can stay in Luftwaffe doc. An early flak emplacement can sometimes be a super good option, and I love trenches as OKW. The trench is the perfect spot for a raketenwerfer in the late game where you already have a lot tanks, for example if you put it next to your schwerer panzer HQ... without the chance of the raketen being stolen :)
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