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OST Grens

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29 Mar 2019, 15:24 PM
#1
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 597

So...

Osteer grens need to be 5man as stock, maybe with an upgrade like the brits, maybe even at a slight cost increase initially. But 4 man squads just doesnt hold up to the allies average of 5-6 (with 2 heavy weapons per unit). And thats before we take into account the squad wipe capacity of a allied mortar/artillery.
29 Mar 2019, 15:26 PM
#2
avatar of Exterior Reptile

Posts: 94

Permanently Banned
+1

Wouldn't say it better myself
29 Mar 2019, 15:28 PM
#3
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 167

They don't, just nerf other factions to irrelevance just like ostheer was.
29 Mar 2019, 15:56 PM
#4
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 907

The real problem is Brits getting bolster at the 5min mark. They're literally unwipeable with small arms fire. The only thing grens have is the rifle grenade to see if opponent is paying attention. Bolster should be locked behind the cromwell tech.
29 Mar 2019, 16:45 PM
#5
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 272

Put grenade, mg and five man behind a fuel+MP upgrade and why not. Tommies also cost more pop cap 5man, so you would need to up gren pop cost too.

Maybe Brits can get a mortar and rocket arty if we are going the clone route.

Grens can't just get this stuff for free while being cheaper out the gate.
29 Mar 2019, 16:48 PM
#6
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 914 | Subs: 1

I'd prefer avoiding bolster clones like UKF. Bolster has been a balancing problem since release with IS either being garbage or super strong. Maybe better vet 3 bonuses or something for grens so they can still keep up with WFA squads late.
29 Mar 2019, 18:36 PM
#7
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 907

I've also suggested a vet 1 bonus damage or accuracy vs suppressed squads for grens. Since Ost vet 1 is mostly a dud for overpriced medpaks.
29 Mar 2019, 18:46 PM
#8
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 152

The problem is not that grens face supirior late game allied inf. The problem is the difference in preformance level.

Yes sections and rifles cost more. Their upgrades cost more. But somehow volks wich require very little recources in comparison can stand up to them, and offer utility at near conscript level. while having obers and sturms in main tech. And grens are left in the dust.

Nerf volks (just remove the bloody stg) then nerf rifles sections and penals. Buff obers bye making them come earlier. but dont make or have grens be able to go 5 men. If you do it will be a planetary anihalation faction system. 1 faction for all. Right now axis just wat stuff allies have without giving anything in return.
29 Mar 2019, 18:56 PM
#9
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 509

The problem is not that grens face supirior late game allied inf. The problem is the difference in preformance level.

Yes sections and rifles cost more. Their upgrades cost more. But somehow volks wich require very little recources in comparison can stand up to them, and offer utility at near conscript level. while having obers and sturms in main tech. And grens are left in the dust.

Nerf volks (just remove the bloody stg) then nerf rifles sections and penals. Buff obers bye making them come earlier. but dont make or have grens be able to go 5 men. If you do it will be a planetary anihalation faction system. 1 faction for all. Right now axis just wat stuff allies have without giving anything in return.


dual equipped rifles and sections destroy stg volks
29 Mar 2019, 20:07 PM
#10
avatar of Kharn

Posts: 264

Put grenade, mg and five man behind a fuel+MP upgrade and why not. Tommies also cost more pop cap 5man, so you would need to up gren pop cost too.

Maybe Brits can get a mortar and rocket arty if we are going the clone route.

Grens can't just get this stuff for free while being cheaper out the gate.



The problem is getting to the late game and having the resources to buy that rocket arty, or using mortars without being overrun.

When the 5 man tommies start equipping brens their blob will start annhiliating machine guns leaving a very team weapon heavy faction caught out. But if you blob too, your blob just isnt as good. Your blob cant easily heal anywhere on the map or get the utility that tommies can get. The one big push over tommies used to have is being vunerable to vehicles and now engineers can snare so thats no longer a weakness (and engineers totally needed this).

But it leaves a hole, I play a loooooot of allies... and I've been switching because of the queue times.. and I really feel the imbalance. I feel like I'm waiting for my opponent to fuck up to get an advantage, or they're just bad. But a good allied player just makes it so hard to push through as OST. Double brit in 2's is terrifying, and worse in larger games

Such durable blobs, and you can blob in a SMART way. Spreading when you hear rocket arty isn't that hard when all your focus is on your blob. OKW can do the exact same thing but with lesser effect these days.


I'm not sure what the best call is on this, the 5 man G43 upgrade from German Infantry does feel about right, locking out the LMG. But thats a commander only call in and having non-dotrinal G43 may not be the best idea.
29 Mar 2019, 20:54 PM
#11
avatar of Syraw

Posts: 88

the issue is that 4 men grens are a bit weak, but 5 men gren is too op.
29 Mar 2019, 20:55 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 12694 | Subs: 6

Have you tried not to face mash that upgrade button on 251 and actually use it to reinforce in combat?
29 Mar 2019, 22:29 PM
#13
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2416 | Subs: 1

I'd prefer avoiding bolster clones like UKF. Bolster has been a balancing problem since release with IS either being garbage or super strong. Maybe better vet 3 bonuses or something for grens so they can still keep up with WFA squads late.

We have this fancy and underutilized "battle phase" system in Ost teching. We could have idk BP2 unlock a slight damage reduction to make them less prone to wipes
29 Mar 2019, 23:19 PM
#14
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 861

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2019, 20:55 PMKatitof
Have you tried not to face mash that upgrade button on 251 and actually use it to reinforce in combat?


You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to find an argument these days. Start playing the game and maybe people will care.

ib4 "ost have good tanks" is really bullshit argument these days. Allied tanks have been buffed throughout the years and now they are on equal footing with axis armor. I would take a comet over a panther any day, yes slightly weaker AT but it murders infantry. Panther needs a mg upgrade... not that its good vs infantry but so atleast they can't stand next to it afk.
29 Mar 2019, 23:27 PM
#15
avatar of Corsin

Posts: 597

Put grenade, mg and five man behind a fuel+MP upgrade and why not. Tommies also cost more pop cap 5man, so you would need to up gren pop cost too.

Maybe Brits can get a mortar and rocket arty if we are going the clone route.

Grens can't just get this stuff for free while being cheaper out the gate.


Their rifle nade is already behind T1 fuel upgrade. Obviously they would cost 5pop just like they do in the squad leader upgrade.


The main issue here isnt the grens output, its the fact that they get wiped (or forced to retreat) way too easily.
29 Mar 2019, 23:56 PM
#16
avatar of Grim

Posts: 650

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2019, 15:24 PMCorsin
So...

Osteer grens need to be 5man as stock, maybe with an upgrade like the brits, maybe even at a slight cost increase initially. But 4 man squads just doesnt hold up to the allies average of 5-6 (with 2 heavy weapons per unit). And thats before we take into account the squad wipe capacity of a allied mortar/artillery.


Clearly the best solution is to make them a mirror of cons with 6 men. Obviously add teching for grenade and faust and remove Mg42. Otherwise good to go.
30 Mar 2019, 00:03 AM
#17
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 410

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2019, 23:19 PMspajn
You are really scraping the bottom of the barrel to find an argument these days. Start playing the game and maybe people will care.


I'm sorry, are you suggesting that mobile reinforcement points are, somehow, not good?

Have you played CoH2 since 2013?

I would take a comet over a panther any day, yes slightly weaker AT but it murders infantry.


No. No it doesn't. It really, really doesn't. Brummbars murder infantry. Centaurs murder infantry. The comet is nothing but a vastly overpriced cromwell.
30 Mar 2019, 02:46 AM
#18
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1237 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Mar 2019, 23:56 PMGrim


Clearly the best solution is to make them a mirror of cons with 6 men. Obviously add teching for grenade and faust and remove Mg42. Otherwise good to go.


I was going to try to be funny here but you beat me to it.

If you want to use Volks then play OKW, Wehr has the MG42/Sniper to make up for Grens not punching above their weight, I don't think Grens are supposed to walk over more expensive units without support.
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