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russian armor

IS 2 is kidding me

26 Mar 2019, 23:19 PM
#24
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3649 | Subs: 1

Invised some posts for being offtopic, and generally targeting other forum users.
27 Mar 2019, 04:42 AM
#25
avatar of spajn
Donator 11

Posts: 918



I strongly beg to differ with regards to the Tiger. It regularly takes Penals and Guard squads down to a couple of men with 1 shot


No it doesn't. I have almost 2000 games under my belt as Ostheer and i know that about 40% of its shots (when stationary) misses. 40% of its shots kills 1-2 models and 20% of its shots are good killing 3-4 models. Compare to IS2 when stationary i would say 60% of its shots will tear infantry a new asshole.

And that is the problem why people say IS2 sucks. The majority of the playerbase doesn't seem to understand that tanks have huge accuracy penalties when moving and they drive around the IS2 and it never hits. Just have it stationary and watch it melt all infantry.
27 Mar 2019, 08:35 AM
#26
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1348

Tiger and King tiger do the same, with one shot they can kill up to 4 models(and very rare 5-6 ).
So its the same when you play with USF or UKF against them (both have 4-5 man squads).
27 Mar 2019, 10:16 AM
#27
avatar of skemshead

Posts: 581

The problem with the IS2 is its Armour is excessive when comparing it to a Tiger. I have had 2 games recently where it bounced almost 75% of shots from packs, stugs and P4. In one game the sov player just parked his IS2 on the vp and did not move it while I had 2 stugs and pak all firing at it. The first 3 volleys from the stugs all bounced ( that 6 shots ) and 2 shots from pak bounced or missed.
I am not an expert at judging distance in the game, so I would say they were at medium range because no infantry was in front to spot for them and they were stationary the entire time. I don't think getting closer should be required because I am then putting my tanks at massive risk to satchels and snares, not to mention the stug often has terrible pathing and cannot get away. As to the idea of flanking, well that is just a massive waste of time as the P4 also bounces almost all the time and if you keep moving then you will often miss even at point blank range.

As to getting a panther, that often ends with a dead panther because the panther will bounce or miss with higher than expected regularity. If the soviet player pairs a couple of Zis with the IS2 then it becomes even more difficult and almost suicide if Rng goes slightly against you. To make it worse if Shocks attack and clear opposing At guns or if offmap is dropped then the axis player is at an extreme disadvantage despite having similar units and having spent similar fuel etc.

It is significantly harder to kill an IS2 than it is to kill a Tiger even though the cost is similar.

I do understand in team games it is probably no huge issue because focus fire can force it off but in 1v1, I find it enormously hard to kill if it is supported properly and I find it hugely frustrating watching it bounce so many shots. I will say that I have killed this unit on a number of occasions by overwhelming it with multiple stugs and paks but on most occasions it is because the sov player overextended.

I have no real issue with its damage output but its survivability needs to be inline with the tiger.
27 Mar 2019, 13:11 PM
#28
avatar of Mr Carmine

Posts: 586

The rof and accuracy of the is2 are horrendeus when compared to the tiger. If the i2s should match the tiger in durability its rof and acc should be made to match it as well.

As right now the is2 is fine imo. Its extremely durable but is inaccurate and fires very slowly. The tiger is less durable but has good concitant acc with higher rof.
28 Mar 2019, 10:40 AM
#29
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

IS2 armour is quite superior to Tiger and feels like more than KT, might be definitely wrong on that fact. The fact is it is more difficult to Penetrate IS2 since Panthers ricochet it most of the time, being its only best axis AT option in game. It feels absolutely annoying when it ricochets many times and you cant get around because of how mobile and deadly it is.

What makes IS2 great simply, is armour, AOE, against infantry is better than KT and T, most of all it is the speed that kills. Very difficult to counter it is indeed.
28 Mar 2019, 10:46 AM
#30
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15424 | Subs: 7

IS2 armour is quite superior to Tiger and feels like more than KT, might be definitely wrong on that fact. The fact is it is more difficult to Penetrate IS2 since Panthers ricochet it most of the time, being its only best axis AT option in game. It feels absolutely annoying when it ricochets many times and you cant get around because of how mobile and deadly it is.

What makes IS2 great simply, is armour, AOE, against infantry is better than KT and T, most of all it is the speed that kills. Very difficult to counter it is indeed.

The only thing that makes IS-2 good is its armor.
Its AT DPS is bad, but at least penetration chance is reliable, its AI is, exactly like KT, a slot machine of hit and miss(mostly miss).

And no, panther is not best axis AT option, its best STOCK AT option, there are at least 3 doctrinal options that have 100% chance to penetrate IS-2, KT also does not struggle in any way against IS.

Tiger have LONGER RANGE, higher penetration(stat wise its 10 lower, but all of allied vehicles, short of IS-2 and arguably comet when put on the same shelf as panther have lower armor then their axis counterpart, so at the end it just has easier time against all the allied armor then reverse), much better scatter and rate of fire, access to better survival tools depending on doctrine(however plain old blitz is also vastly superior to capping a fucking point).

IS-2 will beat Tiger 1v1, but Tiger is overall much stronger and better tank that actually inflicts massive damage instead of just taking it.
28 Mar 2019, 11:10 AM
#31
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 8520 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 10:46 AMKatitof

The only thing that makes IS-2 good is its armor.
Its AT DPS is bad, but at least penetration chance is reliable, its AI is, exactly like KT, a slot machine of hit and miss(mostly miss).

And no, panther is not best axis AT option, its best STOCK AT option, there are at least 3 doctrinal options that have 100% chance to penetrate IS-2, KT also does not struggle in any way against IS.

Tiger have LONGER RANGE, higher penetration(stat wise its 10 lower, but all of allied vehicles, short of IS-2 and arguably comet when put on the same shelf as panther have lower armor then their axis counterpart, so at the end it just has easier time against all the allied armor then reverse), much better scatter and rate of fire, access to better survival tools depending on doctrine(however plain old blitz is also vastly superior to capping a fucking point).

IS-2 will beat Tiger 1v1, but Tiger is overall much stronger and better tank that actually inflicts massive damage instead of just taking it.

If we accept the "the higher penetration" argument (which should actually be better chance to penetrate since penetration is a basic stat and IS-2 has a better penetration value) (and that is a very big if, since there are a many allied units with high armor value) then Tiger, applying the same logic, has sorted range because it generally facing 60 range TD (out ranged by 15) while the IS-2 is facing 50 range TD (out ranged by 10).

You simply can have it both way, so lets avoid the mental gymnastics. Is-2 simply has better penetration and Tiger simply has better range.

Finally both unit get range bonus with veterancy reach the same range of 50
28 Mar 2019, 14:29 PM
#38
avatar of AtomicRockets
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 851

Let us not bash other forum users.

Carry on.
28 Mar 2019, 15:20 PM
#39
avatar of Scoped

Posts: 39

IS2 is incredibly inaccurate most of the time, even standing still. It’s not even that great vs armour, I use it more as a meat shield personally
28 Mar 2019, 15:22 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 15424 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Mar 2019, 15:20 PMScoped
IS2 is incredibly inaccurate most of the time, even standing still. It’s not even that great vs armour, I use it more as a meat shield personally

Its reliably vs armor, just as KT, but that's as far as it goes.
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