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Soviet - Airbourne feedback

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21 Mar 2019, 10:41 AM
#1
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6274 | Subs: 1

(Updated to ver. 4)
Soviet - Airbourne ver.4

CP 2 SVT Drop
cost 45 MU
Drops a crate at the target position that can be picked up by infantry.
Grants the squad that picks it up with 3 Penal Battalion SVTs; takes up 1 weapon slot.

CP 3 Airborne Guards

Costs 360 manpower.
There is a smoke drop before the unit airdrops
Equipped with 6 SVTs
Has Rg33 Grenade, IL-2 strafing run (vet 1), can built Airborne Rally Point

IL-2 strafing run
-Veterancy 1 Strafe damage from 5 to 2.
-AOE from 6 to 5
-Strafe AOE distance from 1/1/1 to 0/1/3
-Strafe AOE damage distance from 1/1/1 to 1/0.5/0.3

Can be equipped with 3 DP 28s for 100 munitions.
Upgrade now provides Fire Superiority:
Airborne Guards accuracy reduced by 90%, but targeted infantry unit receives a 55% accuracy penalty and are reduced to walking speed for 11 seconds or until the ability ends. Ability disengages when unit is told to move. 25 munitions.

Can upgrade with 6 PPSh
Upgrade now provides smoke grenade.

CP 2 Airborne Rally Point

Costs 100 manpower and 15 fuel.
Can detect enemies in a range of 60 around it.
Can reinforce units in friendly territory
Can request a Medical Airdrop at the target position for 15 munitions.
When the Mechanized Armor Kampaneya is deployed, it can act as a Forward Retreat Point.
Has 320 Health.

CP 2 DsHK Paradrop
Paradrop costs 125 manpower and 50 munitions
DsHK Changes
Penetration from 4.5/3/1.5 to 7/6/5 (now similar to USF .50 cal)
Arc from 30 to 38

CP 10 IL-2 Rocket Strafe

100 munitions
Barrages the area with P-47 rockets.
Damage against vehicles from 120 to 160.
Building AOE damage from 1/1/1 to 0.25/0.001/0.0005 (this will be adjusted, values are temporary to stop ability from hard countering buildings)
Damage against non-vehicle targets from 120 to 20.
Added a delay of 2 seconds before the airstrike arrives.





Soviet - Airbourne ver.3


Soviet - Airbourne ver.2


Soviet - Airbourne ver.1
21 Mar 2019, 10:47 AM
#2
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6274 | Subs: 1

It seem rather early to provide useful feedback but there is an ability that is so obviously bad that need to change:

Airdrop SVT, drop-able weapons are bad and they should be removed from the game not become more available.

The mechanism offers nothing in 1vs1 and creates all sort of problems in larger modes. The weapons have to be balances for units that cap pick them up and while it actually works as uncounterable MU transfer.

Lets for instance say that in a team of 2 player A goes PPsh and Player B SVT. Now player A can have access to PPsh/SVT conscripts with performance close to Assault guards while spending only half of his munition.

This mechanism is flawed in it core and should be simply removed from the game.
21 Mar 2019, 11:13 AM
#3
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 511 | Subs: 1

We already know you hate that the allies are allowed team game synergy, Vipper.

This isn't unique to airborne. We already have droppable weapon upgrades and even shareable tanks, and it has absolutely zero game breaking impact on large game modes. It can be useful, the same way that a command panther is useful, for everyone.

But it also bleeds one player's MU dry trying to keep three allies supplied, so your team still pays for it. And a commander is viable as a team support, not just for four individual 1v1 fights.

Its fine.
21 Mar 2019, 11:14 AM
#4
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1472 | Subs: 3

For me, SVT-40 drop is fine. This will give the engineers and conscriptts some extra power and help to the allies. It's not the Vickers and the PITT that everyone whines. SVT-40 will not break the game.

I have other claims against this commander, which I combine here:

- SVT-40 drop either does not work or uses Mosin rifle.
- apparently, the animation of parachutes cannot be applied to the Airborne, because it looks like the Guards partisans.
- Regarding the DP-27, what kind of airborne forces are they if they cannot buy machine guns behind the line of the enemy?
In continuation of the theme of the DP-27, three DP-27 are not needed, just the DP-27 buff to the Bren level (cost 45 ammunition, similar damage)

The main problem is still in abilities. Airborne has no role.

- IL-2 missile strafe - I understand that this is an attempt to diversify abilities, but these are 100 ammunition useless ability:
It causes minimal damage even to stationary targets - buildings, engine damaged tanks
it does not cause damage to infantry in the area of missile action
like the IL-2 strafe, it works incorrectly - the missiles attack only 1/2 of the area of the strike ability.

Just replace it with IL-2 PTAB - this will be the best option.
21 Mar 2019, 11:21 AM
#5
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1920 | Subs: 3

SVT drops are also next to useless for other factions (much worse than Brens and BARs) while potentially giving Soviet Cons strats new life.


jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2019, 10:47 AMVipper
Lets for instance say that in a team of 2 player A goes PPsh and Player B SVT. Now player A can have access to PPsh/SVT conscripts with performance close to Assault guards while spending only half of his munition.

This can't happen. Cons only have one weapon slot.
21 Mar 2019, 11:23 AM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6274 | Subs: 1

SVT drops are also next to useless for other factions (much worse than Brens and BARs) while potentially giving Soviet Cons strats new life.



This can't happen. Cons only have one weapon slot.

Grants the squad that picks it up with 3 Penal Battalion SVTs; takes up 1 weapon slot.

PPsh does not take any weapon slot.

Check patch notes
21 Mar 2019, 11:28 AM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6274 | Subs: 1

Other:
Dshk sprint have to be removed AP round should be moved to Vet 1 same for 0.50

Airborne Rally Point can be built in enemy territory even base, should be restricted only in friendly sector.

Airborne Guards have access to ourah, no long range infatry should have that (including JLI) since it allows kiting.

SVT Drop
I am not sure if I got the SVT weapons but I did get 25 mu for picking the box.
21 Mar 2019, 11:30 AM
#8
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1920 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2019, 11:23 AMVipper
PPsh does not take any weapon slot.


I thought they did. Alright then, will look into that.
21 Mar 2019, 12:35 PM
#9
avatar of Ultimate26

Posts: 36

can we drop dp28 instead of svt? who benefits from this? cons become a mediocre penal squad, give me atleast 4 SVTs! can someone give me raw stats of a single dp28 vs 3 SVT rifles?
21 Mar 2019, 12:51 PM
#10
avatar of ruzara

Posts: 21

i think we need to start from the bottom again

first the guards paratrooper need to be a generalist to fullfill the role of the paratrooper so i suggest like usf counterpart need for an upgrade for long-range or close-range weapon like DPs(with focus fire and button ability) and PPsh (maybe with oorah and smoke come with it) and add RGD grenade, its the iconic theme for soviet elite infantry (also a good grenade)
Right now guard airborne kinda force to take role of long-range troops which didnt fit paratrooper classification (smoke and oorah with long-range weapons?!?!)

and second ability dropping "heal" crate (like luftwaffe supply) AND allow guards paratrooper to reinforce across the map so the guards no longer needed back to base and always stay in field

and the last ability to support the paratrooper are the airforce itself
il-2 precision bombing strike or PTAB cluster bombing strike (with dp-28 button can make this abilities quite have synergy with the guards) also didnt want to clone the rocket strike because it boring.. brits and usf have it, why does soviet need to have one of those too? prefer skill-shot than skill-plane...

and for 2 other ability is kinda loose option (but still needed the airborne feel)
you can add weapons crate that come with dhsk and M-42 or 120mm mortar

the airborne rally point still fit the theme so its good

but that just my opinion..
with this you have elite unit that can hold its ground in the field (which soviet lack of) and support ability to help the guards itself to tackle most opponents (team weapons and AT-bombing strike)
21 Mar 2019, 13:04 PM
#11
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1472 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2019, 12:51 PMruzara
i think we need to start from the bottom again

and for 2 other ability is kinda loose option (but still needed the airborne feel)
you can add weapons crate that come with dhsk and M-42 or 120mm mortar

the airborne rally point still fit the theme so its good

but that just my opinion..
with this you have elite unit that can hold its ground in the field (which soviet lack of) and support ability to help the guards itself to tackle most opponents (team weapons and AT-bombing strike)


I agree, the DShK drop is a waste of the slot. A more interesting option is the HQ glider: which can build a DShK, a 120-mm mortar and an M-42, this can also be combined with the Airborne Retreat Point. And one slot will be released for a more useful ability.
21 Mar 2019, 13:11 PM
#12
avatar of blancat

Posts: 565



I agree, the DShK drop is a waste of the slot. A more interesting option is the HQ glider: which can build a DShK, a 120-mm mortar and an M-42, this can also be combined with the Airborne Retreat Point. And one slot will be released for a more useful ability.



Did the Soviets use gliders?

Compared to the USF Airborn unit, Dshk drop is enough good option

Don't try to put too much in at once

Or give the HQ glider to the USF airborn company too

21 Mar 2019, 13:18 PM
#13
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1472 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2019, 13:11 PMblancat



Did the Soviets use gliders?

Compared to the USF Airborn unit, Dshk drop is enough good option

Don't try to put too much in at once

Or give the HQ glider to the USF airborn company too



https://transfiles.ru/g7zol
(Book in Russian)

Although the USSR did not conduct large-scale operations with the Gliders, the USSR Glider did more large number of night operations, more than the United States and Britain combined. This is mainly the supply of partisans with weapons and ammunition and the transfer of sabotage groups
21 Mar 2019, 13:29 PM
#14
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13678 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2019, 10:47 AMVipper
It seem rather early to provide useful feedback but there is an ability that is so obviously bad that need to change:

Airdrop SVT, drop-able weapons are bad and they should be removed from the game not become more available.

The mechanism offers nothing in 1vs1 and creates all sort of problems in larger modes. The weapons have to be balances for units that cap pick them up and while it actually works as uncounterable MU transfer.

Lets for instance say that in a team of 2 player A goes PPsh and Player B SVT. Now player A can have access to PPsh/SVT conscripts with performance close to Assault guards while spending only half of his munition.

This mechanism is flawed in it core and should be simply removed from the game.

I completely disagree.

Droppable weapons allow weapon upgrade for multiple units without having to meddle with every single unit properties, therefore diminishing possibility of bugs.

Additionally, if brit weapon drops do not create any problems in team games that wouldn't be addressed already(dual LMG cons), then a much weaker weapon in form of SVT won't either.

As much as you hate them with passion, synergies between factions and commanders ENHANCE the team game experience, not ruin it.

I could bring multiple other examples and ask you why you were silent about balance about them, so lets go:

Ost buffing healing crates drop, it makes OKW infantry so batshit insanely OP its not even funny, everything from sturmpios to obers and all in between gets such massive boost that we have flashbacks from early OKW days. You're silent about these crates meant clearly for less potent ost infantries. You never had a problem with that.

Ost fuel drops kicking OKW teching speed into overdrive. Elaboration isn't need, we've seen 10 minutes King Tigers in team games. You never had a problem with that.

Literally OKW abilities and units being given to Ost through new commanders. You don't seem to have a problem with that.

Axis command units affecting allies while allies command units not doing the same. Again, you don't seem to have a problem with that.

Sorry, you can't scream that allied synergies are bad and be completely and utterly silent about axis synergies, so drop your hypocisy already and stop trying to invoke a storm in a glass of water.
21 Mar 2019, 14:06 PM
#17
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6274 | Subs: 1

We already know you hate that the allies are allowed team game synergy, Vipper.

Pls do not this make personal.

I am not against synergy, I am against abilities that hard to balance and create more issues that they actually solve.

Unless Relic decides to implement one solid system do balance this weapons this will always be problematic.

A systems like that would either need to have different squads pick different weapons (ober/commando...) style or specific modifiers for each squad applying to picked weapons (osttruppen style.

Else these weapon will be problematic. Take for instance Royal engineer or R.E. which will be able to punch way above their cost.

In sort, this ability serves little purpose in 1vs1 and creates a whole lot of issues in 2vs2
21 Mar 2019, 14:13 PM
#19
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1472 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post21 Mar 2019, 14:06 PMVipper

Pls do not this make personal.

I am not against synergy, I am against abilities that hard to balance and create more issues that they actually solve.

Unless Relic decides to implement one solid system do balance this weapons this will always be problematic.

A systems like that would either need to have different squads pick different weapons (ober/commando...) style or specific modifiers for each squad applying to picked weapons (osttruppen style.

Else these weapon will be problematic. Take for instance Royal engineer or R.E. which will be able to punch way above their cost.

In sort, this ability serves little purpose in 1vs1 and creates a whole lot of issues in 2vs2


I watch a funny contradiction: people complain that the M3 HT weapon drop OP. But I do not see any person who would play these commanders in team games. And you are talking about SVT drop, which is just a joke in comparison with the great and terrible OP Vickers and PIAT drop.
21 Mar 2019, 14:15 PM
#20
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

There should be a requirement to actually play the commander before posting.
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