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Thoughts on Panzergrenadiers

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19 Mar 2019, 18:55 PM
#101
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1


Commander Revamp Patch patchnotes, https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/67/coh-2-changelog/p5


Ahh I thought it was reload speed and RA not movement. Still RA and damage reduction are two VERY different things. Stock and doctrinal are as well

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2019, 18:05 PMFarlon

It's just the same bonuses they get from support package in infantry commander.


No they're not. Damage reduction is very different from RA, and I don't think any infantry units should have it (looking at you rangers)
19 Mar 2019, 19:06 PM
#102
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 184

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2019, 18:33 PMLago


If the enemy blows up T1 the Panzerfaust is disabled.

As for why, Grenadiers used to be T0. They got swapped with the MG42 when USF came out.

Grenadiers used to be T0? I know that MG42 used to be in T1 but I dont remember grens even being T0
19 Mar 2019, 19:34 PM
#103
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2019, 19:06 PMFarlon

Grenadiers used to be T0? I know that MG42 used to be in T1 but I dont remember grens even being T0


I could be wrong.
19 Mar 2019, 21:07 PM
#104
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Grens were not t0 best I remember.
20 Mar 2019, 00:26 AM
#105
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

Huh, didn't know Faust gets disabled if the tier structure is gone either.

I always thought once you "unlock" the ability it stays, like with KT (don't need all 3 structures up at the same time).

Oh well, thanks for the info.
20 Mar 2019, 06:11 AM
#106
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2019, 18:33 PMLago
As for why, iirc Grenadiers used to be T0. They got swapped with the MG42 when USF came out.


Not exactly, this change only transfer the HMG 42 from T1 to T0 for more strategic diversity. Before T0 only has pioneers and T1 has Grens, HMG 42, sniper and mortar.
20 Mar 2019, 10:51 AM
#107
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

You basically said :

tigers are great, but they come out too late, when the enemy already
has a lot of counters for them. I suggest making them the starting unit,
and having them start in the enemy HQ at game's start where they 1 shot
the enemy starting unit and HQ. Thus proving a lot more useful.

What do you guys think?

Reducing pzgrenadier squad to 280 while reducing their dmg...
Why not simply get assault grenadiers? They got 5x men, and have
SMG equipment. Problem solved :)
20 Mar 2019, 10:52 AM
#108
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Mar 2019, 19:06 PMFarlon

Grenadiers used to be T0? I know that MG42 used to be in T1 but I dont remember grens even being T0


Yea. At launch.
Grenadiers in T0, MG42 in T1. It was swapped.
Then USF got Mortar in T0, then they lost smoke 'nades
20 Mar 2019, 10:54 AM
#109
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



Yea. At launch.
Grenadiers in T0, MG42 in T1. It was swapped.
Then USF got Mortar in T0, then they lost smoke 'nades

Both were in T1...
20 Mar 2019, 11:01 AM
#110
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

We have to be realistic here, no one will do a drastic changes right now. So let's focus on small solutions. The best proposal right now was
I think the upgrade package from infantry commander should be default for all pgrens no matter what commander
20 Mar 2019, 12:10 PM
#111
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 868 | Subs: 5

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2019, 11:01 AMBizrock
We have to be realistic here, no one will do a drastic changes right now. So let's focus on small solutions. The best proposal right now was


I think USF Riflemen should be 250 manpower. Thoughts?
20 Mar 2019, 12:14 PM
#112
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I think USF Riflemen should be 250 manpower. Thoughts?


How does that relate to Panzergrenadiers?
20 Mar 2019, 13:42 PM
#113
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206



I think USF Riflemen should be 250 manpower. Thoughts?


Stay on topic, if you want to discuss this you can just create a topic about it.
A_E
20 Mar 2019, 14:11 PM
#114
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2436 | Subs: 6

OK time to completely re-do panzer grendiers imo, and make them a true specialist in anti-tank.

Panzer Grenadiers 2019

A dedicated tank hunting squad from the get go, able to only survive against infantry but very adept at tank busting.

New cost: 280mp

Main weapon load out: 1 x stg44, 2 x kar98, 1 x panzerschreck (1.2x damage and pen of normal schreck).

Moving speed: 0.8x that of normal squad (to stop blobs marauding in team games, and to simulate size of panzershrecks.

Abilities:

riegel mine - to cripple tanks and then allow schreck to finish them off.

tank awareness - see tanks moving in fog of war for a limited time, has to stay stationary.

veteran ability - 20mu smoke grenade: to allow them to narrow gaps and survive suppression vs. anti-infantry tanks
20 Mar 2019, 14:11 PM
#115
avatar of Balanced_Gamer

Posts: 783

I think at least 260 manpower for Riflemen, they are better than Volks by default exceeding close - mid range when volks only chance really is long. The differences are the timing in weapon upgrades.

Back to Panzergrenadiers

I posted this discussion on a different Coh Forum https://community.companyofheroes.com/discussion/245645/wehrmacht-needs-changes-panzergrenadiers-bugs-and-more/p2

Your text..

It concerns about Panzergrenadiers and Wehrmacht overall, it is pretty long, Panzergrenadiers is currently costy I would say for any base unit. Obers are good (comes late the OKW Obers), Obers are better than Pzgrens overall, the price is the issue. Panzergrenadiers should be price from 300-320 manpower, 340 is a lot especially when they drop like flies when vet 0 thus costing you even more. So 300 manpower price would be great.

Wehrmacht suffers heavily in terms of repairing, maybe Panzergrenadiers should get "Support Package" option then leave price as it currently is. The support package is available in The German Infantry Doctrine and it would be a great addition for Wehrmachts overall weaknesses by default.

20 Mar 2019, 14:18 PM
#116
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 184

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2019, 14:11 PMA_E
OK time to completely re-do panzer grendiers imo, and make them a true specialist in anti-tank.

Panzer Grenadiers 2019

A dedicated tank hunting squad from the get go, able to only survive against infantry but very adept at tank busting.

New cost: 280mp

Main weapon load out: 1 x stg44, 2 x kar98, 1 x panzerschreck (1.2x damage and pen of normal schreck).

Moving speed: 0.8x that of normal squad (to stop blobs marauding in team games, and to simulate size of panzershrecks.

Abilities:

riegel mine - to cripple tanks and then allow schreck to finish them off.

tank awareness - see tanks moving in fog of war for a limited time, has to stay stationary.

veteran ability - 20mu smoke grenade: to allow them to narrow gaps and survive suppression vs. anti-infantry tanks

Please, no, that will just turn them into cheaper AT stormtroopers. They just need very small changes like smoke or mechanized passive and they'll be perfect. Would be interesting to see them have riegels doctrinally though.
A_E
20 Mar 2019, 14:40 PM
#117
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2436 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2019, 14:18 PMFarlon

Please, no, that will just turn them into cheaper AT stormtroopers. They just need very small changes like smoke or mechanized passive and they'll be perfect. Would be interesting to see them have riegels doctrinally though.


I fail to see how this would make them into stormtroopers.
20 Mar 2019, 14:48 PM
#118
avatar of Farlon

Posts: 184

jump backJump back to quoted post20 Mar 2019, 14:40 PMA_E


I fail to see how this would make them into stormtroopers.

Stormtroopers with AT package are basically this except they dont have riegels.
20 Mar 2019, 14:51 PM
#119
avatar of nigo
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 15

Mechanized passive ability is the way to go. Consider my suggestion about a "HIT THE DIRT" when near tanks and halftracks (with cooldown OFC).


This will open a lot of more tactics to WHER.
20 Mar 2019, 14:53 PM
#120
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 1388 | Subs: 1

Are you talking about transfer of doctrine combined arms passive ability for pg to non-doc, or it‘s going to be new passive ability for them?
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