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Thoughts on Panzergrenadiers

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24 Apr 2019, 16:06 PM
#301
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 480

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2019, 16:59 PMKharn


Pgrens are probably the most underused unit in the game. I can't think of one that is used less.

I go double Sturms some games more than I've ever thought about making a Pgren. They always end in disappointment, a costly squad that is fiinicky to use, and if you upgrade to shrecks they'll just get crushed and focused so hard it makes you regret that decision.


Man, team games really are a different beast.

In nearly every 4v4 game (not an exaggeration, at least 80%) if there is a Wehrmacht player, pgrens will see use, and about half of those games 2 will be used.

I get that things are different in 1v1 but pgrens are very common in team games.

edit: Ok so this is just anecdotal but I just went to twitch and I see Price doing a triple-shrek squad that can one-volley t-34s. It's just hilarious.

Though in team games, this isn't actually uncommon so eh.



25 Apr 2019, 05:56 AM
#302
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1563



Man, team games really are a different beast.

In nearly every 4v4 game (not an exaggeration, at least 80%) if there is a Wehrmacht player, pgrens will see use, and about half of those games 2 will be used.

I get that things are different in 1v1 but pgrens are very common in team games.

edit: Ok so this is just anecdotal but I just went to twitch and I see Price doing a triple-shrek squad that can one-volley t-34s. It's just hilarious.

Though in team games, this isn't actually uncommon so eh.





but sadly works only vs noobs....
pgrens with schreck will need minimum rang 20 to be effective and hit actuall the target. more range will miss the target to often.

this means you drive around your tanks with no view and no micro when you lose it to grens with schrecks
and when you clumb them togehter...allies have a ton of abiltys and units which work perfectly vs blobbs...for example a kat or a ISU...you will bleed so much..
25 Apr 2019, 10:58 AM
#303
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2



but sadly works only vs noobs....
pgrens with schreck will need minimum rang 20 to be effective and hit actuall the target. more range will miss the target to often.

this means you drive around your tanks with no view and no micro when you lose it to grens with schrecks
and when you clumb them togehter...allies have a ton of abiltys and units which work perfectly vs blobbs...for example a kat or a ISU...you will bleed so much..

It is funny to read this as I remember you complaining about how AT satchel is OP.
25 Apr 2019, 11:08 AM
#304
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2237 | Subs: 1


It is funny to read this as I remember you complaining about how AT satchel is OP.

Yea but the Shrek has to get within 20 range or it MIGHT miss! The satchel only has to get WAY closer and won't miss! Totally different you see.
25 Apr 2019, 11:38 AM
#305
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1563


It is funny to read this as I remember you complaining about how AT satchel is OP.


there are differenzes:

- Penals are mostly your "mainline" as sov
- penals doesnt need to clumb as blobb to be effective..one of them is enough
- penals are MUCH more versatile and durable than pgrens
- satchels works even when there is shotblocke betweenn them and the targets...pgrens need to run around it and must stay for 1,5sek to shoot
- pgrens have no slow + handheld like penals
- pgrens are more expansiv


need more...?
25 Apr 2019, 12:35 PM
#306
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 2



there are differenzes:

- Penals are mostly your "mainline" as sov
- penals doesnt need to clumb as blobb to be effective..one of them is enough
- penals are MUCH more versatile and durable than pgrens
- satchels works even when there is shotblocke betweenn them and the targets...pgrens need to run around it and must stay for 1,5sek to shoot
- pgrens have no slow + handheld like penals
- pgrens are more expansiv


need more...?


Cool stuff "but sadly works only vs noobs...."
25 Apr 2019, 16:25 PM
#307
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 715



there are differenzes:

- Penals are mostly your "mainline" as sov
- penals doesnt need to clumb as blobb to be effective..one of them is enough
- penals are MUCH more versatile and durable than pgrens
- satchels works even when there is shotblocke betweenn them and the targets...pgrens need to run around it and must stay for 1,5sek to shoot
- pgrens have no slow + handheld like penals
- pgrens are more expansiv


need more...?


It's your fault if your tank gets snared by grens, riflemen, etc. Why isn't your fault if you get snared by an even shorter range snare?

Edit: I should add that I think regular penals could use some adjusting. But the soviets need some help in the early game if that happens. But the be AT snare is 100% fine...
25 Apr 2019, 20:28 PM
#308
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 480

Sure thing Ullu, totally. Definitely.

Anyway, to the mod/balance team, please keep what I brought up in mind. Thank you.
26 Apr 2019, 07:50 AM
#309
avatar of Bananenheld

Posts: 1527 | Subs: 1



Man, team games really are a different beast.

In nearly every 4v4 game (not an exaggeration, at least 80%) if there is a Wehrmacht player, pgrens will see use, and about half of those games 2 will be used.

I get that things are different in 1v1 but pgrens are very common in team games.

edit: Ok so this is just anecdotal but I just went to twitch and I see Price doing a triple-shrek squad that can one-volley t-34s. It's just hilarious.

Though in team games, this isn't actually uncommon so eh.




Thats 3*340manpower and close to 300 Munition on a 4-model squad. But yeah, should be nerfed. Maybe half the damage of shrek so you need 6 squads of pzgrens to abuse this?
26 Apr 2019, 07:57 AM
#310
avatar of waasdijki

Posts: 31







Thats a nice build order you got there.....would be a shame if it would come across a rifle blob with double bars. On a serious note; this build order does not work against experienced players. it has not AI capability and reinforcing 3x pzgr will leave you with no manpower.
26 Apr 2019, 15:22 PM
#311
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 53

Imagine thinking the build in that screenshot works against anyone even remotely competent.

In terms of PzGrens, I think they're mostly fine now, with perhaps a slight MP cost reduction the only thing missing.
26 Apr 2019, 16:17 PM
#312
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 480


Thats 3*340manpower and close to 300 Munition on a 4-model squad. But yeah, should be nerfed. Maybe half the damage of shrek so you need 6 squads of pzgrens to abuse this?


No, it shouldn't be 'nerfed', it just shouldn't be buffed or made easier to spam in the larger game modes because it's frustrating to deal with, but more important, it is not fun.

Since many people seem to be running off the incorrect assumption that I said that this is OP, that is not the case. My point was that this is commmon in 4v4, where another 3 players (who aren't spamming that) have plenty of infantry and units to fill the gaps.

I'm saying that if you _change_ pgrens, keep in mind what repercussions the changes can have in all game modes.

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2019, 15:22 PMFarlion
Imagine thinking the build in that screenshot works against anyone even remotely competent.

In terms of PzGrens, I think they're mostly fine now, with perhaps a slight MP cost reduction the only thing missing.


You either are failing to understand my words, or intentionally choosing to misinterpret them.
26 Apr 2019, 21:04 PM
#313
avatar of Farlion

Posts: 53



No, it shouldn't be 'nerfed', it just shouldn't be buffed or made easier to spam in the larger game modes because it's frustrating to deal with, but more important, it is not fun.

Since many people seem to be running off the incorrect assumption that I said that this is OP, that is not the case. My point was that this is commmon in 4v4, where another 3 players (who aren't spamming that) have plenty of infantry and units to fill the gaps.

I'm saying that if you _change_ pgrens, keep in mind what repercussions the changes can have in all game modes.



You either are failing to understand my words, or intentionally choosing to misinterpret them.


No, you missed my point which was that spamming PzGrens is not not going to work outside of 4v4 (where anything works really, largely due to the absurd low skill ceiling in 4v4).

26 Apr 2019, 21:48 PM
#314
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 480

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Apr 2019, 21:04 PMFarlion


No, you missed my point which was that spamming PzGrens is not not going to work outside of 4v4 (where anything works really, largely due to the absurd low skill ceiling in 4v4).



You said 'competent', not 4v4. But whatever.
28 Apr 2019, 02:31 AM
#315
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 72


Thats 3*340manpower and close to 300 Munition on a 4-model squad. But yeah, should be nerfed. Maybe half the damage of shrek so you need 6 squads of pzgrens to abuse this?


I think you're on to something. Maybe reduce squad to three as well so they aren't nearly as resilient.
28 Apr 2019, 11:54 AM
#316
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Social Media Manager Badge
Patrion 26

Posts: 314

As a couple of other people have previously said, now that pgrens come out earlier, and from the HQ, it's probably worth removing them from 'Mechanized Assault Doctrine'.

Having the 250 by itself for the lower cost and zero(?) CPs would make the early game for that commander more interesting and varied, imo.
28 Apr 2019, 13:05 PM
#317
avatar of thekingsown10

Posts: 86

The changes to Panzergrenadiers are just lackluster and don't go far enough. I would also give Panzergrenadiers a stock smoke grenade and satchels to increase their versatility .
28 Apr 2019, 13:23 PM
#318
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2032

As a couple of other people have previously said, now that pgrens come out earlier, and from the HQ, it's probably worth removing them from 'Mechanized Assault Doctrine'.

Having the 250 by itself for the lower cost and zero(?) CPs would make the early game for that commander more interesting and varied, imo.


It'd also create a very early Assault Grenadier clown car.

While I like the idea of replacing the fairly useless Assault Groups with the Infantry Doctrine buildable 250s, combining a very fast 250 with Assault Grenadiers risks creating another Cav Rifle WC51.

That absolutely should not be combined with a call-in heavy.
28 Apr 2019, 13:40 PM
#319
avatar of MrBananaGrabber.
Social Media Manager Badge
Patrion 26

Posts: 314

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Apr 2019, 13:23 PMLago


It'd also create a very early Assault Grenadier clown car.

While I like the idea of replacing the fairly useless Assault Groups with the Infantry Doctrine buildable 250s, combining a very fast 250 with Assault Grenadiers risks creating another Cav Rifle WC51.

That absolutely should not be combined with a call-in heavy.


In that case perhaps just remove the squad and leave it at 3CPs. It's already a 250, so it's basically a call-in clown car complete with a squad ready to be given shreks.
This way if people want to turn it into an AT clown car now they'll have to build a squad as well.
28 Apr 2019, 14:20 PM
#320
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2340

250 at 0 cps would be a big no no lol. Thing is still great even when it comes like 3-4 minutes in in german infantry doc.
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