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Why does the Firefly have to suck so much?

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11 Mar 2019, 12:16 PM
#161
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

T1 30, T2 115. With the firefly included, you can field one with as little as 300 total fuel + build time.

That said, if you do, you're playing with 4 man squads, no grenades or weapons, no light vehicle or bofors, and no vehicle tracking (a godsend for the firefly). Also, no doctrinal halftracks or similar with fuel costs.

Its doable, but there's also rarely any need to do so. A firefly is overkill for light vehicles while offering no AI power that the cromwell and centaur bring. No idea why firefly rushes would be anybody's priority unless they're behind on fuel control and facing an OKW PzIV.
11 Mar 2019, 12:54 PM
#162
avatar of SuperHansFan

Posts: 833

I don't know why people are saying being able to rush a FF is such an amazing perk. (Also I'm pretty sure Ost can field a stug faster even if UK player deprives himself of 5man and brens)


People rush AA tanks or mediums because they give you a shock factor to punish infantry and light vehicles. Jackson, FF stug or SU85 just gives you a panzerfaust target, these units are responsive counters, rushing one is just a waste of fuel and pop cap before your enemy has heavy armour
11 Mar 2019, 13:17 PM
#163
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

I don't know why people are saying being able to rush a FF is such an amazing perk. (Also I'm pretty sure Ost can field a stug faster even if UK player deprives himself of 5man and brens)


People rush AA tanks or mediums because they give you a shock factor to punish infantry and light vehicles. Jackson, FF stug or SU85 just gives you a panzerfaust target, these units are responsive counters, rushing one is just a waste of fuel and pop cap before your enemy has heavy armour

There is little point in rushing a FF.

On the other hand it has been claimed that it does not have lower tech cost than other heavy TD and it has been suggested that it fuel cost could go down.

Thus the low tech cost has been highlight to explain the problem that might derive from a fuel cost reduction.
11 Mar 2019, 13:32 PM
#164
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Make the firefly cheaper, like 100 fuel cheaper. And then raise tech T2 cost 150 fuel. There now firefly is dirt cheap and effective, not even SU can spamm that much, but hey pay for the "advantage" with a 265 Fu T2 price tag.
Happy now?
11 Mar 2019, 13:34 PM
#165
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Make the firefly cheaper, like 100 fuel cheaper. And then raise tech T2 cost 150 fuel. There now firefly is dirt cheap and effective, not even SU can spamm that much, but hey pay for the "advantage" with a 265 Fu T2 price tag.
Happy now?


That'd turn UKF into a pretty much exclusively Crocodile-stalling faction.
11 Mar 2019, 13:37 PM
#166
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2019, 13:34 PMLago


That'd turn UKF into a pretty much exclusively Crocodile-stalling faction.

I was being sarcastic, sry to point that out.
11 Mar 2019, 13:40 PM
#167
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474


I was being sarcastic, sry to point that out.
sir u forgot ur /s
11 Mar 2019, 14:12 PM
#168
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Mar 2019, 13:17 PMVipper

There is little point in rushing a FF.

On the other hand it has been claimed that it does not have lower tech cost than other heavy TD and it has been suggested that it fuel cost could go down.

Thus the low tech cost has been highlight to explain the problem that might derive from a fuel cost reduction.

I would be happy with the firefly getting either a modest buff or brought down to 140-145 fuel, but locking it behind hammer/anvil. So long as you have one of them you can firefly. A pop cap tweak would be nice to go with it, knock it down to 15.

Less rushable, more cost effective once you have it.


...but even if we didn't, what's the use of a FF rush? Still too late to counter early LVs. Still way too early to fight heavy tanks. No AI to speak of.
11 Mar 2019, 14:24 PM
#169
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358


...but even if we didn't, what's the use of a FF rush? Still too late to counter early LVs. Still way too early to fight heavy tanks. No AI to speak of.

As for teamgames when other players do the frontline job and UKF rushes FF to hold midgame.
Its a possibility hence the balance.
12 Mar 2019, 07:45 AM
#170
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

I cant imagine why some guys here want a buff for the FF. Its is on of the best TD ingame. It has a turret, HIGH alpha dmg, stun, with upgrades a fast reload, fow-view and when u have 2 of them you doesnt need anything more to counter every armor (even in teamgames) easily.

must be a l2p issue if u have problems with them....
12 Mar 2019, 08:55 AM
#171
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

I cant imagine why some guys here want a buff for the FF. Its is on of the best TD ingame. It has a turret, HIGH alpha dmg, stun, with upgrades a fast reload, fow-view and when u have 2 of them you doesnt need anything more to counter every armor (even in teamgames) easily.

must be a l2p issue if u have problems with them....

Because jacksons are OP therefore some people want the same OPness on UKF. Comets didnt go through, next on the list: FF
12 Mar 2019, 23:15 PM
#172
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682

People want a buff for the FF because the KT can kill up to four models.
13 Mar 2019, 00:03 AM
#173
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2019, 23:15 PMKoRneY
People want a buff for the FF because the KT can kill up to four models.

Allied AI tanks pretty much do the same and more consistenly on i dont see anyone asking panther buffs.
13 Mar 2019, 00:18 AM
#174
avatar of KoRneY

Posts: 682




Allied AI tanks pretty much do the same and more consistenly on i dont see anyone asking panther buffs.




A KT which can kill four models or more a shot, which has MGs, which has front armour through the roof and a HP pool to match.


I was quoting this madness. It's a stretch at best.

13 Mar 2019, 00:47 AM
#175
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

Be careful quoting trolls, they like that attention. Just saying.
This offtopic message will auto-invis itslef in 3... 2... 1...
13 Mar 2019, 00:48 AM
#176
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Mar 2019, 00:18 AMKoRneY






I was quoting this madness. It's a stretch at best.


I consider myself as unbiased as I can be and the KT killing 4 models a shot is less likley now but not uncommon. Just feels uncommon because someone has to field a KT first for it to happen and all allied TDs have been over buffed so.....
13 Mar 2019, 03:17 AM
#177
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Firefly sucks because the 6pdr is great. Stug is overnerfed because the pak is great.
13 Mar 2019, 08:28 AM
#178
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Mar 2019, 23:15 PMKoRneY
People want a buff for the FF because the KT can kill up to four models.


Nice attempt, but no, you can't just grab two totally unrelated parts of a larger conversation and tie them together into a strawman for your own convenience.

It's a long conversation path to the KT, but it DID involve somebody saying that because the Croc exists and can exist on the same map as a Firefly somehow the brits are impossible to maybe address the cost efficiency of.

(The cost efficiency that the Firefky currently sorely lacks, having to burn hundreds of MU a gane to be worth its price, even if the Vet 3 is good)
13 Mar 2019, 09:02 AM
#179
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474



Nice attempt, but no, you can't just grab two totally unrelated parts of a larger conversation and tie them together into a strawman for your own convenience.

It's a long conversation path to the KT, but it DID involve somebody saying that because the Croc exists and can exist on the same map as a Firefly somehow the brits are impossible to maybe address the cost efficiency of.

(The cost efficiency that the Firefky currently sorely lacks, having to burn hundreds of MU a gane to be worth its price, even if the Vet 3 is good)
it's already cost efficient, best accuracy, best mid range (so even more pen and accuracy), one of the best vet, turret
if we add tulips and tank commander it's beast that can stun and one shoot tanks
13 Mar 2019, 09:26 AM
#180
avatar of SeductiveCardbordBox

Posts: 591 | Subs: 1

it's already cost efficient, best accuracy, best mid range (so even more pen and accuracy), one of the best vet, turret
if we add tulips and tank commander it's beast that can stun and one shoot tanks


Spoken as a peak example of somebody who has only ever lost tanks to a Firefly, and never had to try and use one.
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