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Nice Balance Patxh RELIC!

8 Feb 2019, 17:32 PM
#41
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 856 | Subs: 2



Well it would be ok if Jägers were priced like the elite unit that they are. Instead they have the price of mainline infantry and on top of that can be spawned out of buildings + get camo + get sprint + get first strike bonus + lowest RA in the entire game at vet 5.


Correct me if im wrong but i really think that being able to spawn out of buildings is one of the biggest reasons why people use 4 JLI in games. You not only save the building time of the unit via call-in you also save the time to go from your base to the front.
So if a heavier nerf is coming i would suggest:
1. Cost increase to 300 MP
2. Unit cant be spanwned out of buildings anymore.


@LAGO:
In your later posts you explain factually the issues of the JLI unit and demand reasonable changes, i respect that.
8 Feb 2019, 17:38 PM
#42
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 13:24 PMVipper
I am in support of small changes (and I have been advocating them for years now). Keep it small and eventually you will find the right values without breaking things.

The overnerf overbuf circle has going for far too long from Relic and I was actually unpleasantly supersized when it was continued when the community got involved in the patches.


I 100% agree that small nerfs and buffs are the way to go. Its a much better way to balance than hitting units with nerf bat and leaving them useless over long periods of time.

The biggest thing about small changes imo is that balance patches would have to be much more frequent.
8 Feb 2019, 18:06 PM
#43
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 13:24 PMVipper
I am in support of small changes (and I have been advocating them for years now). Keep it small and eventually you will find the right values without breaking things.

The overnerf overbuf circle has going for far too long from Relic and I was actually unpleasantly supersized when it was continued when the community got involved in the patches.


+1

On the other hand, i understand why game design wise, over nerf and over buffs "work" better in some cases.

snip


Alot of the so called "OP" stats ppl claim the JLI, has, they've had for the past 4 years, why wernt they OP then too?

What the mod team is doing excacly right, trying to find the sweet spot between when they were OP and never used where as thes weeboos want to triple nerf it into oblivion, ffs limited to 1? ridiculous


Alot of the so called "OP" stats ppl claim the JLI, has, they've had for the past 4 years, why wernt they OP then too?


AAAAnd let's not exaggerate into the other direction. They have seen use, in different patches, specially when Scavenge was THE meta.
Even if the Ostwind was not THE vehicle for OKW, in the original 6 commander release, it still saw plenty of action as a Tier 2 commander due to grenade volley and been the only commander with a "decent" offmap to kill artillery.

They saw way less use when Volks got access to snare + STG44.

Compound reasons which made them OP:

CP requirement from 2 to 1.
-Must buy their sniper rifle for 45 munitions. Requires 1 truck to be deployed.
-Squad cost from 300 to 250.
-Reinforce from 37 to 31
-Reinforce time from 7.5 to 6
-Salvage ability now available; replaced by Thorough Salvage in Scavenge Doctrine.
-Veterancy requirements from 660/1320/2240/3520/4400 to 520/1040/2080/3120/3970
-Camouflage is now available at Veterancy 0
-Now has First-Strike Bonuses; increases accuracy by 50% for 5 seconds.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle light and heavy cover accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle garrison accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9


It's basically a completely new unit.
8 Feb 2019, 18:10 PM
#44
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3

Why not also limit JLI to 1? They arguably have about as much or more utility than the Jaeger Command squad from Ostheer and they were never meant to be mainline infantry replacement in the first place.

They have:
- sprint
- booby traps
- salvage
- 50 sight
- bonus against cover
- 75% crit
- good vet
- building spawn
- camo
- passive healing
- medkit

Seems like enough of a reason to limit them.
8 Feb 2019, 18:40 PM
#45
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

What even is this thread.

/moved to scrap yard


It's kind of a shame that blobbing and vehicles is almost everything you can do vs JLI. I think no other unit encourages blobbing from the allies player more than JLI.


That's what you're meant to do vs snipers for the 2 factions without them. Just bad unit design. Units that completely negate cover combat, which is a core principal to the series don't have a place in these games.
8 Feb 2019, 18:52 PM
#46
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 15:16 PMLago


If memory serves, Relic has to pay Valve every time they patch. It's why games on Steam have big patches far apart and games with their own launchers have much faster patch cycles.


Ah, thats a bugger. Thanks for the info.
8 Feb 2019, 23:32 PM
#47
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1


I 100% agree that small nerfs and buffs are the way to go. Its a much better way to balance than hitting units with nerf bat and leaving them useless over long periods of time.

The biggest thing about small changes imo is that balance patches would have to be much more frequent.

Nice to see that we agree but I have to disagree in the second part. Actually it is the big changes that require frequent patches since things can go really wrong.

Let me remind you that we had a full month with a broken USF mortar and 8 months of Penal spam running around with ourah and flamers that made the game to be a very bad spot with very stale meta and that due to big changes and not small changes.
9 Feb 2019, 00:22 AM
#48
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 23:32 PMVipper

Nice to see that we agree but I have to disagree in the second part. Actually it is the big changes that require frequent patches since things can go really wrong.

Let me remind you that we had a full month with a broken USF mortar and 8 months of Penal spam running around with ourah and flamers that made the game to be a very bad spot with very stale meta and that due to big changes and not small changes.


I always considered the big patches stuff like overhauls and unit roster changes (USF overhaul OKW overhaul new units/commanders etc). The balancing of new units like the mortar and the penal changes after they are release are smaller Balance patches. IMO those patches shouldn't take that long and should be more frequent.

I remember that turbo mortar bs and Im pretty sure I quit the game for a pit during the flamer penal early rework. :snfPeter:

In my opinion a perfect world would be where COH2 got similar balance updates to games like LoL which are small but very consistent and frequent patches. So you wouldn't get these huge changes that cause units to be either horrible or op and if the nerfs/buffs weren't enough you could wait a couple weeks for another adjustment. The game would be better balanced that way instead of things like the JLI getting 7 buffs all at once and them going from garbage to op.
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