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Nice Balance Patxh RELIC!

8 Feb 2019, 08:24 AM
#1
avatar of leithianz

Posts: 10

You're consideraion over "Jeagar HEAVY Infantry" for what? 3 weeks? really payed off!!
30 mp + would really do the balance the game.
Oh by the way, since we nerfed OKW, we should give it some payback right?
Will buffing 221 do? IDK you tell me.
8 Feb 2019, 08:50 AM
#2
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

Come on man. Don´t you love playing vs Jäger Light every game? It´s so fun.
8 Feb 2019, 09:58 AM
#3
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1563 | Subs: 2

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

It is better this way rather than Relic's Classic Triple Nerf Into Oblivion™
8 Feb 2019, 12:42 PM
#4
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1717

REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

It is better this way rather than Relic's Classic Triple Nerf Into Oblivion™


Exactly...

Relic: *Increases cost extremely*
People in the forums: "Omg JLI are dead, never gonna play them again!"

Relic: *Increases cost slightly*
People in the forums: "Omg JLI won't be different now, game is dead."

It doesn't matter what Relic does, people seem to be pissed 24/7.
IMO a slight change was a good start.
Because Relic usually overbuffs/overnerfs.
8 Feb 2019, 13:19 PM
#5
avatar of Sturmpanther
Lead Strategist Badge

Posts: 4407 | Subs: 13

You're consideraion over "Jeagar HEAVY Infantry" for what? 3 weeks? really payed off!!
30 mp + would really do the balance the game.
Oh by the way, since we nerfed OKW, we should give it some payback right?
Will buffing 221 do? IDK you tell me.


I will write it here only 1 time and will also not more discuss it.

As highfiveee said: In past it was always overbuff or over nerf.
So this time we went for small steps. Don't forget the cd on 100 sec before you can call another one it.
Did you played games already on the new version? or just saw the patchnotes and complain.

Another point is: As you can see relic is here for coh2 atm. So there will be future hotfix/ patches coming as well. It is not as it was in the past, where all 6 -12 month 1 patch appeared + you never knew if this would be the last patch or not.

And about why it take so long. It's not only for changing JLI, it was for alot of other things too.
And coding and modding is not that easy in coh2 from the engine.

P.S So 221 was op? :rofl:
8 Feb 2019, 13:24 PM
#6
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 4256 | Subs: 1

I am in support of small changes (and I have been advocating them for years now). Keep it small and eventually you will find the right values without breaking things.

The overnerf overbuf circle has going for far too long from Relic and I was actually unpleasantly supersized when it was continued when the community got involved in the patches.
8 Feb 2019, 13:36 PM
#7
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 260

the balancing is too small though, there is still so many overperforming units or abilities besides JLI.
It's not like JLI is the only problem.

Look at IR pathfinders now for instance or how not many have even picked on how op sextons are.
8 Feb 2019, 13:48 PM
#8
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 1072

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 13:36 PMCresc
or how not many have even picked on how op sextons are.


https://www.coh2.org/topic/84950/feelings-after-the-decemberpatch

The overwelming majority of people think that the Sexton is fine.
8 Feb 2019, 13:50 PM
#9
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959



I will write it here only 1 time and will also not more discuss it.

As highfiveee said: In past it was always overbuff or over nerf.
So this time we went for small steps. Don't forget the cd on 100 sec before you can call another one it.
Did you played games already on the new version? or just saw the patchnotes and complain.

Another point is: As you can see relic is here for coh2 atm. So there will be future hotfix/ patches coming as well. It is not as it was in the past, where all 6 -12 month 1 patch appeared + you never knew if this would be the last patch or not.

And about why it take so long. It's not only for changing JLI, it was for alot of other things too.
And coding and modding is not that easy in coh2 from the engine.

P.S So 221 was op? :rofl:


I had Jäger Light in my games today and it felt exactly like before the nerf. There was no meaningful difference. Enemy got his 2-3 Jägers as usual. I also tried the 221 and it still felt pretty bad especially because Elite Armor as a doctrine itself isn´t overly effective either.
8 Feb 2019, 13:52 PM
#10
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 242


If only 20% percent of the players who are constantly complaining about JLI would HAVE TESTED the several patches BEFORE THE RELEASE OF THE REVAMP PATCH... and where feedback was VERY MUCH APPRECIATED...well, we might have some more constructive discussions. WE HAVE 10 REVAMP COMMANDERS and the HUGE MAJORITY OF ALL CHANGES ARE GOOD! Maybe you should just recognize this work first and complain later.

What bothers me most is the fact that the naysayers ignore the work of people who using THEIR SPARE FREE TIME TO MAKE THIS GAME BETTER. JLI was NEVER USED FOR YEARS and the mod team made the right decision to make this unit more attractive... Yes, JLI are extremely powerful but the mod team already made changes and others will come if the unit still over performs, so what the fuck do you
want?

And by the way: OKW'S MOST EXPENSIVE UNIT IS TRASH - maybe i should open a new "Buff KT thread" for every new "NERF JLI, mod team =OKW fanboys" thread.

8 Feb 2019, 13:53 PM
#11
avatar of Lago

Posts: 1368

what the fuck do you want?


Jaeger Light Infantry being removed from the game code would be great.
8 Feb 2019, 13:59 PM
#12
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959


And by the way: OKW'S MOST EXPENSIVE UNIT IS TRASH - maybe i should open a new "Buff KT thread" for every new "NERF JLI, mod team =OKW fanboys" thread.



Could you please elaborate how the performance of the KT relates to the Jägers being op?

And btw yes, there are more "Buff KT" threads neccessary, the KT is too bad at the moment especially in terms of veterancy requirements.
8 Feb 2019, 14:06 PM
#13
avatar of blancat

Posts: 241

buff KT and give every faction an opportunity to produce heavy tanks with nondoctrine

That will be fair : )

isn't it?
8 Feb 2019, 14:08 PM
#14
avatar of Smartie

Posts: 242

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 13:53 PMLago


Jaeger Light Infantry being removed from the game code would be great.


Your posts are getting even more constructive.

@blvckdream:
I just wanted to be as populist as some of the hard, non constructive critics of the mod team (LAGO and company) who ignore the fact that the mod team doesnt want to overnerf a unit that was not used for years.
Look, no one is saying that JLI should stay op but just WAiT FOR 1 week and see if the changes are working.
ddd
8 Feb 2019, 14:22 PM
#15
avatar of ddd

Posts: 183


If only 20% percent of the players who are constantly complaining about JLI would HAVE TESTED the several patches BEFORE THE RELEASE OF THE REVAMP PATCH... and where feedback was VERY MUCH APPRECIATED...well, we might have some more constructive discussions. WE HAVE 10 REVAMP COMMANDERS and the HUGE MAJORITY OF ALL CHANGES ARE GOOD! Maybe you should just recognize this work first and complain later.

What bothers me most is the fact that the naysayers ignore the work of people who using THEIR SPARE FREE TIME TO MAKE THIS GAME BETTER. JLI was NEVER USED FOR YEARS and the mod team made the right decision to make this unit more attractive... Yes, JLI are extremely powerful but the mod team already made changes and others will come if the unit still over performs, so what the fuck do you
want?

And by the way: OKW'S MOST EXPENSIVE UNIT IS TRASH - maybe i should open a new "Buff KT thread" for every new "NERF JLI, mod team =OKW fanboys" thread.



Are you trying to look smarter abusing caps lock? Nobody tested revamp patch and WE WERE STUCK WITH OP JLI FOR WEEKS. Thats cool and we deserved it. Now pretty much everybody who played the game tested JLI and EVERYONE SAID THEY WERE WAY TOO OVERPOWERED. Yet the nerfs for them are a complete joke. Even Ass Engies got performance nerf but JLI are left untouched. As we can see feedback from community wasnt really appreciated.

Everyone except few idiots appreciate the balance team work but if their goal is to create the ultimate braindead okw faction that steamrolls opposition with few overpowered units maybe they should create their private mod and release it for the interested.

Oh and by the way: USF WHOLE TIER 3 IS TRASH . Maybe i should create new thread and suggest adding non doc Pershing after all officers are unlocked?
8 Feb 2019, 14:36 PM
#16
avatar of Lago

Posts: 1368



Your posts are getting even more constructive.

@blvckdream:
I just wanted to be as populist as some of the hard, non constructive critics of the mod team (LAGO and company) who ignore the fact that the mod team doesnt want to overnerf a unit that was not used for years.
Look, no one is saying that JLI should stay op but just WAiT FOR 1 week and see if the changes are working.


The mod team did a great job with very limited testing resources. Balancing is difficult even with proper tools. JLI ending up the way they did is understandable.

What is not understandable is, now given weeks of live testing, they're doubling down on this unit being something that's good to have in the game. It's not.

We've seen how they devolve every match they appear in into a blobfest because that's the only way infantry can fight them. They make every match they appear in worse, and yet whoever presently designs the patch wants to keep them in their current design. It baffles me.

A 0.9 accuracy vs cover long-range crit rifle does not belong in this game. On any unit.
8 Feb 2019, 14:50 PM
#17
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post8 Feb 2019, 14:36 PMLago


The mod team did a great job with very limited testing resources. Balancing is difficult even with proper tools. JLI ending up the way they did is understandable.

What is not understandable is, now given weeks of live testing, they're doubling down on this unit being something that's good to have in the game. It's not.

We've seen how they devolve every match they appear in into a blobfest because that's the only way infantry can fight them. They make every match they appear in worse, and yet whoever presently designs the patch wants to keep them in their current design. It baffles me.

A 0.9 accuracy vs cover long-range crit rifle does not belong in this game. On any unit.


Well it would be ok if Jägers were priced like the elite unit that they are. Instead they have the price of mainline infantry and on top of that can be spawned out of buildings + get camo + get sprint + get first strike bonus + lowest RA in the entire game at vet 5.

The one thing that is for sure is that a slight cost increase and a longer cool down won´t change much of anything. Which means we have to play against Jäger Lights almost every game. And in the games that I played in today Jäger Lights were just used like before the "hotfix" so it doesn´t seem like people just stop using the unit now that it got "BALANCED" lol
8 Feb 2019, 14:53 PM
#18
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 38

coudnt agree more with lago, the changes are kind of good and i understand that mistakes can happen, but a long range rifle that negates cover shoudnt be on a 4 men sqad gamedesign wise. Since it destroys relative positioning and rewards the opponent more for sitting in cover while you cant do the same.
8 Feb 2019, 14:55 PM
#19
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 337



Well it would be ok if Jägers were priced like the elite unit that they are. Instead they have the price of mainline infantry and on top of that can be spawned out of buildings + get camo + get sprint + get first strike bonus + lowest RA in the entire game at vet 5.


It's pointless to discuss anything with fellows who who think JLI are even remotely okay. Ambush camo, sprint, infiltration ablity, retarded RA bonuses making them tougher than shocks on top of a 70% crit sniper rifle and cost similar to Grenadiers coming out at CP1 are broken, anyone above 70 IQ figured that out with exception of "balance" team, after this patch I dont think anyone could take them seriously anymore.

Hard nerfing Valentine and slapping KV-8/Shocks with nerfs while doing nothing to JLI monstrosity they created going to kill this game for good, nobody in sane mind wants to deal with JLI every fucking game
8 Feb 2019, 15:10 PM
#20
avatar of Lago

Posts: 1368



Well it would be ok if Jägers were priced like the elite unit that they are. Instead they have the price of mainline infantry and on top of that can be spawned out of buildings + get camo + get sprint + get first strike bonus + lowest RA in the entire game at vet 5.

The one thing that is for sure is that a slight cost increase and a longer cool down won´t change much of anything. Which means we have to play against Jäger Lights almost every game. And in the games that I played in today Jäger Lights were just used like before the "hotfix" so it doesn´t seem like people just stop using the unit now that it got "BALANCED" lol


I don't think it would be. It serves the same function as a flamer: it ignores cover, flushing units out of it. Flamers are balanced by being short range usually on small squishy squads without strong RA like Engineers. Flamers on mainline infantry (Riflemen and Penal Troops) were removed from the game because they removed cover as counterplay.

The JLI sniper rifle in its current state is like a 35 range flamer without the AoE or DoT, and it's on a unit with very respectable combat stats.

The mentality of 'any unit's fine as long as you price it right' doesn't lead to a balanced or fun game. Things that screw with the basic flow of the game need counterplay built in too.
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