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russian armor

Assault Grenadiers costing munitions.

27 Sep 2013, 15:01 PM
#41
avatar of pgmoney

Posts: 86

1 cp instead of 0 cp would of been the correct fix as barton said already
27 Sep 2013, 15:04 PM
#42
avatar of MorgolKing

Posts: 148

As I've said earlier in this thread, the AGs really need to be buffed, given cost of CP2 and 500 manpower and made to be Stormtroopers so they actually add something to Ostheer build order.

Before the muni cost they added a way for Ostheer to take the fight to the Soviets rather than play defensively early game. They didn't deal a lot of damage but they were durable and had to be used aggressively. Now with the muni cost, what's the point? Why would I skip Grens for assault grenadiers? Why would I keep getting AG instead of PG? The muni cost puts them in a very small window of effectiveness -- imo it's nominal.

The AGs can no longer be used for an aggressive style of play. Grens with LMGs are more effective and there are other ways the Ostheer player can spend 50 munis in the opening minutes rather than get a durable 5 man squad. This also makes their ability useless because by the time you get munis for it you'll have much better options. And again, once T2 is reached PG are much better. So now AGs can no longer serve as a substitute to Grens and they don't serve as one to PGs.

Either take away the muni cost or make their cost real high (2CP, 500MP) and buff them to be Stormtroopers. Don't keep them in this limbo where they're ineffective and superfluous.
27 Sep 2013, 15:05 PM
#43
avatar of MorgolKing

Posts: 148

Read my post above. Why would any Ostheer player opt to get these instead of PG? By the time 1 cp is obtained you should already have or soon thereafter have access to PGs.


jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2013, 15:01 PMpgmoney
1 cp instead of 0 cp would of been the correct fix as barton said already
27 Sep 2013, 15:17 PM
#44
avatar of Blovski

Posts: 480

Read my post above. Why would any Ostheer player opt to get these instead of PG? By the time 1 cp is obtained you should already have or soon thereafter have access to PGs.


They still beat conscripts and guards handily, their reinforce cost is lower (as is the initial cost), the higher squad number helps them recrew and take sniper shots and they're less likely to get squad wiped. You don't need to build Tier 2 to get them. There are plenty of reasons to get them instead of PGs even at 1 CP if they went back to the old cost.
27 Sep 2013, 15:35 PM
#45
avatar of mariens

Posts: 90

having ag's cost munitions and having them at 0 cp makes them completelly useless in all stages of the game, they dont belong early game, they dont belong mid game unless you choose some wierd no shreck no ac build with paks as only at or smth, you basicly screwing yourself if you getting them
27 Sep 2013, 15:35 PM
#46
avatar of rofltehcat

Posts: 604

From the stats, they are basically Panzergrenadiers with 1 squad member more and cheaper reinforcement cost. I'd have thought they deal less damage but apparently they are using the same weapons.
So the 50 ammunitions is probably fair, especially when you want to skip T2, which is probably an interesting idea since you can then still get Panzerschrecks (on a mobile platform) to support your Pz4/protect your Ostwind and deal with Su-85s. The synergy in this commander isn't bad, although you'll need a lot of ammunitions, so no LMG42s.

Their real strength is that they won't bleed you as much manpower as Panzergrenadiers would.
Putting them at 1 CP would have given them around the same timing as Panzergrens though (when using T2).
27 Sep 2013, 15:36 PM
#47
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Sep 2013, 15:17 PMBlovski


They still beat conscripts and guards handily, their reinforce cost is lower (as is the initial cost), the higher squad number helps them recrew and take sniper shots and they're less likely to get squad wiped. You don't need to build Tier 2 to get them. There are plenty of reasons to get them instead of PGs even at 1 CP if they went back to the old cost.


I agree, I think CP1 AGrens would've solved the problem. Frankly right now they are pretty useless in a 1v1 setting as I have so many other munitions options that are better (good in team games where I can safely skip T2 and schreks because my teammate has it covered, but that's another story).
27 Sep 2013, 17:43 PM
#48
avatar of alexshiro

Posts: 62

Imo both 0CP call-ins and squads that cost munitions are weird. I think it would be best if Assault was made an upgrade at 1cp like Jager, but that would defeat the point of giving germans more unit call-ins.
27 Sep 2013, 18:06 PM
#49
avatar of Umbert

Posts: 119

Maybe its time to rethink the instant call-in mechanic of infantry and revert it to the days where it unlocked build options in the buildings. Don't touch the vehicle call-ins, leave them as they are. But maybe put the Ostheer Assault Grenadiers and Field Officer in the HQ as buildable unit. That could work as a Ostheer specific Commander trait (Infantry unlocks at the HQ).

Or make it an upgrade of the Grenadiers. Instead of a call-in its a passive ability that converts grenadiers to assault grenadiers with the option to buy the MP40s or the LMG, reinforce to 5 men and throw assault grenades at a higher MP purchase cost.
27 Sep 2013, 22:59 PM
#50
avatar of Stevie Wunderbar

Posts: 5

It indeed strikes me as a crude, stopgap measure intended to be replaced with something more carefully crafted and thought-out in a future patch.

Perhaps simply a manpower-cost increase, or fine-tune the MP-40s with a negative modifier if moving (just an example).
28 Sep 2013, 00:07 AM
#51
avatar of Enkidu

Posts: 351

I still like the idea of making them 240 or 280mp, 0cps, come stock with k98s and have a 50 muni upgrade to mp40s. This way, you can choose to bring them in early to start vetting; it retains the flavor of the doctrine choice; they don't completely replace grens as they have no fausts, lmgs or rifle nades; and they don't start off too strong but still have the option to upgrade their damage output.

I understand those who are saying that they would be similar to grens if implemented like this, but I think that they would have enough diversity with strengths (infantry combat), weaknesses (no faust for vehicles) and flavor (0 cp call in with assault nades) to warrant them being a separate unit.
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