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Tric_TV can fix stalingrad map for free, if you guys want it

Do you want to Tric_TV fix stalingrad?
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Total votes: 57
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
27 Jan 2019, 23:36 PM
#1
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206

Hello,
I and Tric_TV were discussing why the Stalingrad is not more in the Map Pool. It's a shame that a game about the eastern front doesn't have a map about the most important battle of the front, if not the most important of the whole war.
The map has a lot of problems, but Tric said that he can fix it, and would do this for free if someone can support him by just by answering this pool.
You guys can suggest the problems that you think Stalingrad map have and how to fix it as well.

Thanks

https://www.twitch.tv/tric_tv (Tric stream)
28 Jan 2019, 00:42 AM
#2
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

No imo, I would rather we attempted to change or removed the maps that are already in the map pool before we decide to add more maps, especially ones that were removed because they were so unbalanced.
28 Jan 2019, 00:45 AM
#3
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

No imo, I would rather we attempted to change or removed the maps that are already in the map pool before we decide to add more maps, especially ones that were removed because they were so unbalanced.


But the whole point of the thread is Tric said he can balance it. It's not like they'd just add Stalingrad back as is.
28 Jan 2019, 00:56 AM
#4
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 00:45 AMLago


But the whole point of the thread is Tric said he can balance it. It's not like they'd just add Stalingrad back as is.


Yes I know, and I think Tric is a good guy and does his job well, but I HIGHLY doubt he's going to be able to take a very scary can of worms and make it a map worthy of competitive play in 1 go. More likely it just gets better, to about the point of lost glider or arnhem checkpoint, where they're in the map pool, but usually warrant a veto. MAYBE he does a phenominal job, and it ends up as good as faymonville approach, where it's used largely used in competitive but still has major glaring issues.

Then there's the issue of relic actually uploading things very heavy distance wise in terms of time. If theirs a major balance issue on the map that slips by after the map goes into rotation, odds are relic won't implement a patch for at least 6 months if not more.

I'd rather we just stick to ironing out the glaring issues on maps like faymonville and kholodney ferma than trying to throw in more dice.
28 Jan 2019, 01:02 AM
#5
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1466 | Subs: 4



Yes I know, and I think Tric is a good guy and does his job well, but I HIGHLY doubt he's going to be able to take a very scary can of worms and make it a map worthy of competitive play in 1 go. More likely it just gets better, to about the point of lost glider or arnhem checkpoint, where they're in the map pool, but usually warrant a veto. MAYBE he does a phenominal job, and it ends up as good as faymonville approach, where it's used largely used in competitive but still has major glaring issues.

Then there's the issue of relic actually uploading things very heavy distance wise in terms of time. If theirs a major balance issue on the map that slips by after the map goes into rotation, odds are relic won't implement a patch for at least 6 months if not more.

I'd rather we just stick to ironing out the glaring issues on maps like faymonville and kholodney ferma than trying to throw in more dice.


And who is going to do this?

I kinda agree with bizrock on this, and also you. I don't have time, and it is a shame that a map that is about the eastern front has nothing for stalingrad. This map is actually pretty easy to fix, 10-15 hours, and some testing. But it will take a lot of testing and with SMC it will be hard to do so.


Now if people wanted to take the time to help test it and balance it like bizrock, then thats up to you guys. But I won't go out of my way to get it tested, however I am not just going to give a hard no to someone that wants it done, if other people do as well.
28 Jan 2019, 01:16 AM
#6
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 01:02 AMTric


And who is going to do this?

I kinda agree with bizrock on this, and also you. I don't have time, and it is a shame that a map that is about the eastern front has nothing for stalingrad. This map is actually pretty easy to fix, 10-15 hours, and some testing. But it will take a lot of testing and with SMC it will be hard to do so.


Now if people wanted to take the time to help test it and balance it like bizrock, then thats up to you guys. But I won't go out of my way to get it tested, however I am not just going to give a hard no to someone that wants it done, if other people do as well.


I have no idea who is going to do it, but if we're going to do anything, it shouldn't be taking awful maps and rebalancing the whole thing.
28 Jan 2019, 01:36 AM
#7
avatar of Bizrock

Posts: 206



I have no idea who is going to do it, but if we're going to do anything, it shouldn't be taking awful maps and rebalancing the whole thing.



https://imgflip.com/i/2s6xfs

Tric told me some ways to fix it. The issues on Stalingrad are pretty simple to solve, but just take some time like everything.
He will make a Video about it. Soon.
28 Jan 2019, 01:46 AM
#8
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

I have no idea who is going to do it, but if we're going to do anything, it shouldn't be taking awful maps and rebalancing the whole thing.


If we had a fixed amount of dev time to allocate as we see fit, I'd agree with you.

But we don't, we've got an offer to fix Stalingrad. The choice is a simple one between fixed Stalingrad and broken Stalingrad, and that seems like an easy choice to me.
28 Jan 2019, 01:57 AM
#9
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1466 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 01:36 AMBizrock



https://imgflip.com/i/2s6xfs

Tric told me some ways to fix it. The issues on Stalingrad are pretty simple to solve, but just take some time like everything.
He will make a Video about it. Soon.


I lol'd
28 Jan 2019, 02:02 AM
#10
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
Who's Tric? Can we trust him to make a balanced map or is he gonna shove the changes down our throats without a chance for feedback.
28 Jan 2019, 02:07 AM
#11
avatar of BeastHunter

Posts: 186

Who's Tric? Can we trust him to make a balanced map or is he gonna shove the changes down our throats without a chance for feedback.


You could probably visit his stream while he is working on the map, showcasing the map, maybe cast games on the map. Or you could playtest the map if it comes available in the steam workshop. During that time it is most likely possible to give some constructive criticism.
28 Jan 2019, 02:09 AM
#12
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned


You could probably visit his stream while he is working on the map, showcasing the map, maybe cast games on the map. Or you could playtest the map if it comes available in the steam workshop. During that time it is most likely possible to give some constructive criticism.


It's gonna take a miracle to fix that map.
28 Jan 2019, 02:16 AM
#13
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1466 | Subs: 4



You could probably visit his stream while he is working on the map, showcasing the map, maybe cast games on the map. Or you could playtest the map if it comes available in the steam workshop. During that time it is most likely possible to give some constructive criticism.


Constructive criticism is always fine, its the people that go "Kill yourself your maps are shit" or the general "map sucks" or the back handed trolling that incendiary is currently doing that makes them not get listened to.

Without criticism none of the SMC maps would be in their current forms as they player that co-creates them has the final say on everything.

Either way video will be up in a moment. The map is a lot simpler to fix than a lot of people think, either way no guarantee that I'll do it as I fully anticipate this to be filled with unending flame from a set group of people that have gone out of their way to do it for the last 4 years or so, but if people want it I'll give it a go, cause why not.

It's also a good precursor to what I have been discussing for a while, and going over maps from a mapper perspective and showing what is wrong/right with them. And giving the community as a whole the opportunity to be able to explain or know why a map feels bad instead of just saying "it feels bad".
28 Jan 2019, 02:34 AM
#14
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1466 | Subs: 4



Vid is going to be like 140p till youtube renders it a bit more, but its up.

I also forgot to mention in this that it would need 2 more territory points (which could clear up the cutoff issue) as the standard is 10 points, with stalingrad and crossroads being the exceptions (8 and 12 respectively)

But there you go. Let the :sibToxic: commence. Lol
28 Jan 2019, 02:45 AM
#15
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 02:34 AMTric


Vid is going to be like 140p till youtube renders it a bit more, but its up.

I also forgot to mention in this that it would need 2 more territory points (which could clear up the cutoff issue) as the standard is 10 points, with stalingrad and crossroads being the exceptions (8 and 12 respectively)

But there you go. Let the :sibToxic: commence. Lol


That's what I was thinking, kinda. Just turn the map into something like Caen. Urban but wider streets. The problem like u said about lights only pathways makes microing very hard. In a pitched battle, you don't remember every detail about the map which ways I can use to escape and Stalingrad is the worst map with a million little roads.
28 Jan 2019, 02:49 AM
#16
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1466 | Subs: 4



That's what I was thinking, kinda. Just turn the map into something like Caen. Urban but wider streets. The problem like u said about lights only pathways makes microing very hard. In a pitched battle, you don't remember every detail about the map which ways I can use to escape and Stalingrad is the worst map with a million little roads.


Yes. Not to mention the shift click bug with vehicles still in the game. I think some just larger general changes to how pathing performs and making sure that pathing functions better, and then moving into garrisons and LoS issues would be the easiest. After that maybe a rework of the territory points, which is easy, or just including the 2 new territory points to actually have cutoffs.

But overall the map is pretty simple to fix, its largely just a ton of really strange pathing decisions and the over abundance of green cover on everything (which is why there are so many strange pathing issues).
28 Jan 2019, 02:57 AM
#17
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 02:49 AMTric


Yes. Not to mention the shift click bug with vehicles still in the game. I think some just larger general changes to how pathing performs and making sure that pathing functions better, and then moving into garrisons and LoS issues would be the easiest. After that maybe a rework of the territory points, which is easy, or just including the 2 new territory points to actually have cutoffs.

But overall the map is pretty simple to fix, its largely just a ton of really strange pathing decisions and the over abundance of green cover on everything (which is why there are so many strange pathing issues).



Can u remove the "clutter" on the map? THere was a map awhile ago with a garden/cemetary in the middle and rows of unoccupiable houses on the two sides. There was a lot of crap like stone stairs and some weird stuff that made pathing for inf and tanks weird. In fact the garden was litterally a no-go zone for armor. No matter how u click for a vehicle to enter the garden, it can't, it can only go around the garden, significantly confining the mobility of armor. Soon everybody vetoed the map and it was removed off automatch. Stalingrad reminds me of that map.
28 Jan 2019, 03:05 AM
#18
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1466 | Subs: 4

And for anyone wondering about the vehicle shift queue bug, here is what I am talking about.

28 Jan 2019, 03:15 AM
#19
avatar of Spanky
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1820 | Subs: 2

oh snap... had no idea about the shift queue, but that explains some of my vehicle losses. Also, good job with the stalingrad video, well explained and id be happy to see the finished product from you.
28 Jan 2019, 03:48 AM
#20
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Jan 2019, 02:16 AMTric


Constructive criticism is always fine, its the people that go "Kill yourself your maps are shit" or the general "map sucks" or the back handed trolling that incendiary is currently doing that makes them not get listened to.


Hm I always thought telling someone to kill themselves was constructive criticism :snfPeter:
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