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I think the comet tank is due for a buff.

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23 Jan 2019, 23:26 PM
#21
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2718

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Jan 2019, 23:18 PMKatitof

Its not AI tank, its generalist tank.
Its supposed to be middle grounb between cromwell and tiger/pershing and its not there.
Its AT isn't that bad, but its AI is.


What I meant is if you boosted its anti-infantry abilities and left its AT abilities alone, it's competing with double Cromwell/Centaur. If it's less efficient (like now) it's a deadweight, if it's more (like it used to be) then UKF will be looking to tech up and start building Comets instead of Cromwells.

If you make it an AT brawler tank, then it's got its own niche.
23 Jan 2019, 23:26 PM
#22
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1251

Its a weird tank 4 sure, come at or later than panther yet not supposed to 1v1 them.

AI is marginal

speed is decent and actives are good.




Maybe an AOE increase at close 2 mid for main gun or a hull mg buff could work to.
23 Jan 2019, 23:53 PM
#23
avatar of HoverBacon

Posts: 204

Panzer 4 play is pretty common right now and the comet clubs the living daylights out of panzer 4s. It's anti infantry is actually pretty good providing the tank is stationary which far too many people complain about without making sure it is stationary and the 2 mgs it has aren't bad either. I've also said (like @Lago) before that buffing the anti infantry of the comet whilst making it better doesn't make it more useable The comet does have some glaring issues though;

It's veterancy means it scales very poorly against the panther into the late game as the panther's veterancy is awesome. The comet speed buff is good, but it needs a moving accuracy buff at the very least at vet 3 though I don't think asking for a pen or fire rate buff is too out of order either considering the panther gets a firerate and an armour buff with vet, that grenade ability is useless.

It's a flanker/brawler, which means it should be moving most of the time, however it's moving accuracy is terrible and that combined with not that much pen results in the "it either misses or bounces", scenario meaning it can rarely do what it's supposed to do without extreme micro which isn't ideal when other tanks can hit things in the same circumstance fine.

This was complained about before the december patch but it couldn't really be worked on then as with brits getting snares, the possible increase to their AT potential was up in the air. When Brits were released, their anti tank was so good they didn't need snares, so it could have been that scenario all over again but with snares.

I haven't really used comets since the patch however (mostly cos snares has made the firefly so goddamn juicy to use and the centaur shadow buff (i think) and the crocodile buff has given me other toys so I'm not sure how the comet is performing tbh.
24 Jan 2019, 00:21 AM
#24
avatar of Mr.Flush

Posts: 447

Ai is not the way to go since you go anvil for that. Upping its pen and range means it can fight vs panthers if it shoots first. It will still lose if the panther closes in or if the panther shoots first.
24 Jan 2019, 00:29 AM
#25
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 136

I don't think the Comet itself should be changed, however the Veterancy on the unit needs to be reworked.

Comet Veterancy
Veterancy 1 : Fires White Phosphorus instead of normal smoke
Veterancy 2 : +35% Weapon rotation speed , +30% accuracy
Veterancy 3 : +30% Speed, Crew will attack nearby targets with their grenades by default, +20% Acceleration


These bonuses are fairly useless compared to what other tanks get.
24 Jan 2019, 00:43 AM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6389 | Subs: 1

I don't think the Comet itself should be changed, however the Veterancy on the unit needs to be reworked.

Comet Veterancy
Veterancy 1 : Fires White Phosphorus instead of normal smoke
Veterancy 2 : +35% Weapon rotation speed , +30% accuracy
Veterancy 3 : +30% Speed, Crew will attack nearby targets with their grenades by default, +20% Acceleration


These bonuses are fairly useless compared to what other tanks get.

Add to that:
+10 vision commander
1.10% accuracy commander
War speed from vet 0
Hammer trucking
Smoke from vet 0
Grenades

and you will have a better picture.
24 Jan 2019, 00:50 AM
#27
avatar of Alphrum

Posts: 583

Its a generalist tank, it does exactly what it supposed to. You dont see it because FF + churchill is a way better combo. With panthers armour nerf, makes it much more viable.
24 Jan 2019, 01:10 AM
#28
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 924 | Subs: 2

For people talking about the comet's vet, as far as I'm aware, lacking vet is a featureTM of UKF. Just look at the vet for infantry sections, cromwells, or sappers. Their vet is all pretty lacking. Obviously whether or not it should be a feature is a relevant discussion.

That said, I'd opt for a cost decrease. One of the other big problems of the comet is how much it costs in teching and the unit itself. You end up sitting on a lot of fuel for a long time. A lower cost should make it less of a risk to save up for/tech up to, and make its cost to performance ratio more generous.
24 Jan 2019, 01:30 AM
#29
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 3209 | Subs: 1

I don't think the Comet itself should be changed, however the Veterancy on the unit needs to be reworked.

Comet Veterancy
Veterancy 1 : Fires White Phosphorus instead of normal smoke
Veterancy 2 : +35% Weapon rotation speed , +30% accuracy
Veterancy 3 : +30% Speed, Crew will attack nearby targets with their grenades by default, +20% Acceleration


These bonuses are fairly useless compared to what other tanks get.


For people talking about the comet's vet, as far as I'm aware, lacking vet is a featureTM of UKF. Just look at the vet for infantry sections, cromwells, or sappers. Their vet is all pretty lacking. Obviously whether or not it should be a feature is a relevant discussion.

That said, I'd opt for a cost decrease. One of the other big problems of the comet is how much it costs in teching and the unit itself. You end up sitting on a lot of fuel for a long time. A lower cost should make it less of a risk to save up for/tech up to, and make its cost to performance ratio more generous.


Removal of the +30% accuracy and making it +10% accuracy as well as -10% scatter for vet 2, then giving it a -15% scatter bonus in addition to the WP at vet 1 MIGHT make it good enough to warrant its cost and power.

And to everyone else who wants this to be a "panther niche", essentially you'd be buffing the AT power of the comet a lot and probably require a cost increase, unless the AI is dropped to panther levels. Also that is what firefly's are for.

24 Jan 2019, 01:44 AM
#30
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3220 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2019, 00:43 AMVipper

Add to that:
+10 vision commander
1.10% accuracy commander
War speed from vet 0
Hammer trucking
Smoke from vet 0
Grenades

and you will have a better picture.

Yupp. Comet can't do alot for support. It's not supposed to be a heavy tank that is star of your army, it's a Swiss army knife. Enemy armour? It's got it covered. Enemy MG? Grenade of you can close, smoke if you can't.
Its mgs could be buffed slightly to bleed up AI a bit but outside that I fear any changes will bring it back to over effeciency.
24 Jan 2019, 01:48 AM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 3220 | Subs: 1

. One of the other big problems of the comet is how much it costs in teching and the unit itself.

Except you don't tech just for the unit. You are also teching for gammon for your infantry, tracking for your firefly, war speed for your tanks.... Teching hammer/anvil is cheap for the things you get. The tank is a bonus.
24 Jan 2019, 02:42 AM
#32
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3968

The range it’s out of question

First we need to identify the problem
Is it too underwhelming for its cost ? Reduce it
It has difficult fighting medium tank ? More frontal armor or less reload speed
The AI is random ? Buff the MG
24 Jan 2019, 02:55 AM
#33
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 1520

The range it’s out of question


I very much agree here. I think that was definitely one of the good nerfs. However I also think the on-the-move nerf from .75 to .5 was unnecessary because of that range nerf.

Giving it the .75 modifier back would be a pretty measured way to improve the unit. Maybe slightly better handling too, if they can do that without making it a crush monster again



24 Jan 2019, 05:06 AM
#34
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 262

It's anti infantry is actually pretty good providing the tank is stationary which far too many people complain about without making sure it is stationary and the 2 mgs it has aren't bad either. I've also said (like @Lago) before that buffing the anti infantry of the comet whilst making it better doesn't make it more useable


Comparing the main gun damage output of the wehrmacht panzer 4 to the comet, the panzer 4 reloads faster, has a superior aoe profile and has identical scatter values.

As for MGs, the combined mg dps at ranges 30m/20m/10m
For comet, roughly 7.5/9/12
For panzer 4 its roughly 17.5/22.5/27.5
For panther its roughly 16.5/21/25.1


Obviously in terms of weapon damage output panzer 4 handily beats the comet across the board in AI.
Arguably the panther is on par with comet AI due to the massive difference in machine gun damage output in exchange for poor main gun performance.

What sets the comet apart is really just the flexibility of the WP smoke round- which when it doesnt bug out is incredibly useful, and the additional sight range from the commander.

In terms of durability(less hp but more armor) and AI the comet is on par with a vet 0 panther and has weaker AT performance. This is slightly offset by more utility with commander upgrade and smoke rounds but it isnt worth 10 more fuel than the panther.
24 Jan 2019, 07:46 AM
#35
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2019, 05:06 AMSerrith

Comparing the main gun damage output of the wehrmacht panzer 4 to the comet, the panzer 4 reloads faster, has a superior aoe profile and has identical scatter values.

As for MGs, the combined mg dps at ranges 30m/20m/10m
For comet, roughly 7.5/9/12
For panzer 4 its roughly 17.5/22.5/27.5
For panther its roughly 16.5/21/25.1


Isnt the comets gun special and doesnt collide with cover though?

Also should you include the MG you have to pay for in those above numbers?
24 Jan 2019, 10:05 AM
#36
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1820

its a good allrounder tank with nice abiltys: when u dont have fun with the comet...try its smoke shells...which have quasi 0 cd and are nearly instant aviable after its use. you can smoke often 2-3 times in one little fight. lost it? mostly your own fault...because it can nice peak and poo
24 Jan 2019, 10:51 AM
#37
avatar of Kurobane

Posts: 136





Removal of the +30% accuracy and making it +10% accuracy as well as -10% scatter for vet 2, then giving it a -15% scatter bonus in addition to the WP at vet 1 MIGHT make it good enough to warrant its cost and power.

And to everyone else who wants this to be a "panther niche", essentially you'd be buffing the AT power of the comet a lot and probably require a cost increase, unless the AI is dropped to panther levels. Also that is what firefly's are for.




This would be a good change for the Comet
24 Jan 2019, 11:10 AM
#38
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6389 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Jan 2019, 05:06 AMSerrith

...
In terms of durability(less hp but more armor) and AI the comet is on par with a vet 0 panther and has weaker AT performance. This is slightly offset by more utility with commander upgrade and smoke rounds but it isnt worth 10 more fuel than the panther.

When it comes to surviving.

Panther Vet 0 Comet Vet 0
Target size: 24 Target size: 22
Sight: 35 Sight: 45
Speed: 6.6 Speed: 6.9
Accel: 2.4 Accel: 2.2
Rotate: 30 Rotate: 32
Armor: 260/90 Armor: 290/110
Health: 960 Health: 800
Abilities: Abilities: War speed,Hammer tracking, Smoke round, Grenades

So Comet is superior to everything accept HP and acceleration.

Panther Vet 3 Comet Vet 3
Target size: 24 Target size: 22
Sight: 35 Sight: 45
Speed: 6.6 Speed: 9
Accel: 2.4 Accel: 2.6
Rotate: 36 Rotate: 32
Armor: 286/99 Armor: 290/110
Health: 960 Health: 800
Abilities:Blitzkrieg Abilities: War speed,Hammer tracking, WP round, Grenades


So comet is superior to everything accept HP and rotation.

Given that allied TD are superior and that Comet is far better dealing with ATG I would say that Comet has better chances to survive that battle field in unless it facing a Panther 1vs1.

Comet cost is 500/185 Cost of the Panther is 490/185 so it cost 10 manpower more not fuel.
24 Jan 2019, 11:20 AM
#39
avatar of Lago

Posts: 2718

And to everyone else who wants this to be a "panther niche", essentially you'd be buffing the AT power of the comet a lot and probably require a cost increase, unless the AI is dropped to panther levels. Also that is what firefly's are for.


You'd have to drop the AI to Panther levels, yes. If it's got solid AI and solid AT with a little below Panther durability, it's a Pershing.

As for overlapping with the Firefly, I don't think it does. The Firefly is a very slow firing, fragile sniper tank. Snares have done a lot for it, but it's nevertheless a sniper which'll lose to a medium tank at close range. Even the Cromwell is better off in a brawl.

A Panther Comet could coexist with the Firefly in the same way the JP4 and Panther coexist. If anything, the Panther is favoured over the JP4.
24 Jan 2019, 11:34 AM
#40
avatar of Grim

Posts: 756

I'd rather just get extra cromwells than tech up and buy the comet.

Churchill is a much better choice as it is CLEAR in its role and works well with the firefly.

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