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The Overwatch Problem

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15 Jan 2019, 08:56 AM
#101
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

yes because for once okw has a wellrounded commander.
compare overwatch to feuersturm, breakthrough, elite armor or scavenge doctrine.
pls people who pick them, come out of hiding and tell us why

"well rounded" maybe a bit too much
15 Jan 2019, 08:59 AM
#102
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 08:56 AMBaba
yes because for once okw has a wellrounded commander.
compare overwatch to feuersturm, breakthrough, elite armor or scavenge doctrine.
pls people who pick them, come out of hiding and tell us why


special operations luftwaffe and fortifications were all strong commanders before the patch... now theyre rendered completely obsolete by overwatch...
15 Jan 2019, 09:10 AM
#103
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

I dont like fortification but yeah, Luftwaffe and special operations were my go to commanders when playing okw. special operations always felt weird since when going for the command panther, i used to skip the tank hq und thus didnt get the infrared stgs.

i said it before. i dont think overwatchs abilities are op, the combination of all those potent ablilities just makes the doctrine too viable not to pick. for the flare alone it is worth picking it
15 Jan 2019, 09:13 AM
#104
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

imo pulling JLI out of overwatch is a good way to tone it down... that ways JLI spam can be salvage only which makes it another strong doctrine with infi nades + JLI spam...
15 Jan 2019, 09:18 AM
#105
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

hardcap jli so the spam doesnt happen in the first place. recon squads should not replace Volks as mainline infantry. i guess that we can all agree on, cant we. id say, keep jli and remove sektor assault or lefh. make goliath and flares 2 seperate abilities

or increase the cp to 3. same as with fallschirmjägers.
i mean the spam is made possible due to the fact that you can basically skip volks completely. just go 2 kubels and rush that 1 cp. by the time you hit it you should have 500 mp to call in 2 squads of those rascals
15 Jan 2019, 09:27 AM
#106
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2242

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 08:39 AMgbem

ok... can guards cost 250mp now? because by your dumb argument guards should cost 250mp




U know guards can deal with obers? u know guards can deal good dmg vs armor? you know they can slow armor? U know they can trow grenades? u know they are 6model sqauds witch is hard to wipe? Its the combination of all of this they get their pricetag. they are a combination of many sqaud when u compare their abiltys and surviveabilty. WHich german squad can slow armor AND deal good dmg vs them to...AND hav Obers like AI at the same moment? not one single one, my friend.
15 Jan 2019, 09:31 AM
#107
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



U know guards can deal with obers? u know guards can deal good dmg vs armor? you know they can slow armor? U know they can trow grenades? u know they are 6model sqauds witch is hard to wipe? Its the combination of all of this they get their pricetag. they are a combination of many sqaud when u compare their abiltys and surviveabilty. WHich german squad can slow armor AND deal good dmg vs them to...AND hav Obers like AI at the same moment? not one single one, my friend.


do guards have sprint invisibility salvage self healing and infiltration?
also the same argument can be applied to shocks which lack AT capabilities...

also 6 model squads bleed more...
lastly guards do not have the same AI as obers do...

only a complete dumbass or a biased piece of crap defends JLI at 250mp
15 Jan 2019, 09:32 AM
#108
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 09:18 AMBaba
or increase the cp to 3. same as with fallschirmjägers.
i mean the spam is made possible due to the fact that you can basically skip volks completely. just go 2 kubels and rush that 1 cp. by the time you hit it you should have 500 mp to call in 2 squads of those rascals


It was specifically changed to 1 CP in the patch so they are accessible enough to get them instead of the 4th Volks squad. Anything higher just puts them back into rarely being used, because no one wants a pure AI squad at a point where you already have 4x Volks, Obers are close and the MP is needed for HMGs/ATGs/vehicles/tech. Which is exactly why Falls almost see no use either.


Slightly increasing their cost and increasing the call-in cooldown should prevent SP/Kubel openings into JLI spam without making the squad completely redundant again.
15 Jan 2019, 09:33 AM
#109
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 09:18 AMBaba
hardcap jli so the spam doesnt happen in the first place. recon squads should not replace Volks as mainline infantry. i guess that we can all agree on, cant we. id say, keep jli and remove sektor assault or lefh. make goliath and flares 2 seperate abilities

or increase the cp to 3. same as with fallschirmjägers.
i mean the spam is made possible due to the fact that you can basically skip volks completely. just go 2 kubels and rush that 1 cp. by the time you hit it you should have 500 mp to call in 2 squads of those rascals


id still make em more expensive at around 340mp 0muni though... theyre a strong squad with the sniper but require the sniper to be strong... likewise even with a cap theyre still a bit too strong with the current 250mp pricetag...

idk about overwatch keeping JLI... but thats the purpose of this thread i guess... how to put overwatch in line with the other 3 doctrines OKW has in store... my idea at least makes salvage another good doctrine because of JLI + infi nades
15 Jan 2019, 09:36 AM
#110
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2242

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 09:31 AMgbem


do guards have sprint invisibility salvage self healing and infiltration?
also the same argument can be applied to shocks which lack AT capabilities...

also 6 model squads bleed more...
lastly guards do not have the same AI as obers do...

only a complete dumbass or a biased piece of crap defends JLI at 250mp


My friend, sov doesnt need heal while they have acces to its very early and cheap.
salvage? really? this 5fuel from a tank wrack? you know sov has better things for additional ressources? caches? which gives you constantly fuel/ammo?
sprint is good yes...but any armor psuh away easy the JLI. try this vs guards.
and shocks beat guards easy. sit with guards/ shocks or any other squad in m3 and feel the opness.
15 Jan 2019, 09:37 AM
#111
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

if you give them the sniper from the get go, you will see more sector assault since they dont have to upgrade their weapons. when you go jli heavy, you have to decide in early game if you upgrade your jli, give your ass pios a shrek or get an early raketen.
1 clown care and your jli is pretty much fucked


Salvage doctrine is a mess.
Salvage is not worth it.
The ostwind is a meme that stays a dream.
The artillery is mostly pointless since ineffective and too pricey.
15 Jan 2019, 09:39 AM
#112
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



My friend, sov doesnt need heal while they have acces to its very early and cheap.
salvage? really? this 5fuel from a tank wrack? you know sov has better things for additional ressources? caches? which gives you constantly fuel/ammo?
sprint is good yes...but any armor psuh away easy the JLI. try this vs guards.
and shocks beat guards easy. sit with guards/ shocks or any other squad in m3 and feel the opness.


doesnt matter JLI still overperform significantly for a 250mp pricetag... likewise your argument still doesnt apply to shocks
15 Jan 2019, 09:42 AM
#113
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 09:37 AMBaba
if you give them the sniper from the get go, you will see more sector assault since they dont have to upgrade their weapons. when you go jli heavy, you have to decide in early game if you upgrade your jli, give your ass pios a shrek or get an early raketen.
1 clown care and your jli is pretty much fucked


Salvage doctrine is a mess.
Salvage is not worth it.
The ostwind is a meme that stays a dream.
The artillery is mostly pointless since ineffective and too pricey.


ehh if the ostwind gets an acc buff salvage may be useful with infinades + JLI + ostwind...

as per JLI idk... i generally get JLI when the initial maneuver combat has died down to cover v cover combat... as thats where they excel... it wouldnt really matter if they get a muni cost or not
15 Jan 2019, 09:46 AM
#114
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 08:42 AMgbem

ive played 5 games and all of them had OKW + overwatch straight... its getting ridiculous...


Ahhh yes. I can see the ridiculous on that strat as i encounter it as well on the early times of the encounter build. All 4 okws with overwatch doctrine just come in 2 flanks and say hi to the allies

Heh, truth to be told im now playing AS and Against OKWs. So far i am happy to find my counter to the JLI bullcrap works. But not when i play as. As so far only like 1 or 2 players able to counter my JLI crap amongst 6 games i've played, but also because of map involvement. Thats where i found out the shocktroops counter with their Arty piece against my JLI blob. But other than that, an increase of MP up to 300 may seems expansive and unworthy to pick that commander now. Would say like increase to 2cp or maybe 270mp seems to be the sweet spot.

And with the ongoing rant PLEASE REMOVE 1 ABILITY FOR SOMETHING ELSE USABLE THATS NOT DEVASTATING
15 Jan 2019, 09:46 AM
#115
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

The ostwind cames at a time allies usually get t34 or cromwells. it sucks vs at infantry. in 2v2 it is unusable. not viable. its a joke.
I wanted to make it work, i couldnt. It just wastes your fuel
15 Jan 2019, 09:53 AM
#116
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

well the ostwind imo needs an accuracy buff vs light vehicles in order to counter light vehicles better...

as for the timing im not sure if its a callin or not as i dont actually have salvage (luftwaffe uber alles!!!) but making it a callin with a lower cp cost may work...
15 Jan 2019, 09:55 AM
#117
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



Ahhh yes. I can see the ridiculous on that strat as i encounter it as well on the early times of the encounter build. All 4 okws with overwatch doctrine just come in 2 flanks and say hi to the allies

Heh, truth to be told im now playing AS and Against OKWs. So far i am happy to find my counter to the JLI bullcrap works. But not when i play as. As so far only like 1 or 2 players able to counter my JLI crap amongst 6 games i've played, but also because of map involvement. Thats where i found out the shocktroops counter with their Arty piece against my JLI blob. But other than that, an increase of MP up to 300 may seems expansive and unworthy to pick that commander now. Would say like increase to 2cp or maybe 270mp seems to be the sweet spot.

And with the ongoing rant PLEASE REMOVE 1 ABILITY FOR SOMETHING ELSE USABLE THATS NOT DEVASTATING


well 280-300mp 60 muni is what everyone suggests... it makes sense as jagers actually blow penals out of the water... but my suggestion of 340mp 0 muni is actually more sensible as jagers without the sniper arent worth 300mp...
15 Jan 2019, 10:26 AM
#118
avatar of Loxley

Posts: 223

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 08:39 AMgbem

you dont build the rak as your first unit... you build it as the fourth or fifth...


As 4th or 5th unit, I would not use the term "opening". After 4-5 units, the M3 already did alot of damage and then you can build raketen as counter.
15 Jan 2019, 10:28 AM
#119
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 10:26 AMLoxley


As 4th or 5th unit, I would not use the term "opening". After 4-5 units, the M3 already did alot of damage and then you can build raketen as counter.


Usually if you get raketen on the 3rd build, the timing against M3 or even UC is on point. Well at least for me.
15 Jan 2019, 10:30 AM
#120
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

depends really... i sometimes like to go double sturms as it can hardcounter an m3 or UC if done right... but getting a rak on the 3rd pretty much downs your infantrygame imo leaving you vulnerable to the penalblob...
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