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Combat Engineers and its current state

11 Jan 2019, 04:38 AM
#43
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 829

I dont think boosting CE combat power nor offensive power will do any good, its against CE concept, they are meant to be a utility squad. I think a nondoc upgrade like the one UKF has with the heavy engineers could help a bit, this way they could get armor bonus and their models could be changed to the ones shock troops uses.
If the problem is early game combat power i would prefer a conscript buff, sincerely
11 Jan 2019, 04:44 AM
#44
avatar of gbem

Posts: 706

Just remove the combat from the name and buff their repair speed + give them sandbag abilities or nondoc tank traps or smth... they arent worth 170mp as of the moment and have less utility and combat abikity than the pio for a 30mp diff
11 Jan 2019, 14:28 PM
#45
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 2019 | Subs: 1


Neither pios are that good, and the only thing they do have is a short range weapon, but its a short lived advantage and allied engineers have more utility.


At any point in the game if your weapon crew gets flanked by a Pio it is in danger. It's not a panzergrens squad but it can always find a place on the front.

And WFA engies have utility
What utility does CE have?
A demo?
.....
That's it. Their SOLE unique and arguably redeeming abikity got nerfed out of the game because punishing blobs is scary.

Utility wise pios out class CE by far more than 30mp.
They have sandbags, Bunkers and increased LOS as well as combat capability and med kits at vet 1 that can keep themselves and even important weapon crews on field.

I by no means think pios are overperforming by the way.

CE are over priced for what they can do (which is nothing)
11 Jan 2019, 14:59 PM
#46
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 829



At any point in the game if your weapon crew gets flanked by a Pio it is in danger. It's not a panzergrens squad but it can always find a place on the front.

And WFA engies have utility
What utility does CE have?
A demo?
.....
That's it. Their SOLE unique and arguably redeeming abikity got nerfed out of the game because punishing blobs is scary.

I love the way you oversimplificate in your favour. Since you dont see the utility of CE, let me tell you. They are a logistical utility, imagine like a kubelwagen withoug a MG, plus CE can build defenses, sweep for mines AND they are DIRT CHEAP. How many times you suffered the loose of your CE (for comparison SP are really punishing each time you loose them). The only valid justification is that SU starves in manpower. Still they get a helping hand with CE being that cheap.

They could use a UTILITY buff, you get my idea now?
And democharges were a good thing, dont misunderstand my opinion about CE.


Utility wise pios out class CE by far more than 30mp.
They have sandbags, Bunkers and increased LOS as well as combat capability and med kits at vet 1 that can keep themselves and even important weapon crews on field.

Pios bring Combat utility, and thats why SU has conscript. The only extra task is that you have 2 squads doing different things and need a little more micro, but the advantages and flexibility are far more than 1 single squad doing both.


I by no means think pios are overperforming by the way.

CE are over priced for what they can do (which is nothing)

The problem is that you are willingly ignorin what CE are good at (even a little) to obfuscate it with your wish for CE to be good at. I understand your position, but being in denial wont help to change it.
Making them cheaper could be a good idea tho
11 Jan 2019, 19:31 PM
#47
avatar of Butcher

Posts: 1035

I would like to see engineer units get a bit of vet for mines they planted when those blow up on an enemy... if that is possible.
11 Jan 2019, 19:40 PM
#48
avatar of gbem

Posts: 706


I love the way you oversimplificate in your favour. Since you dont see the utility of CE, let me tell you. They are a logistical utility, imagine like a kubelwagen withoug a MG, plus CE can build defenses, sweep for mines AND they are DIRT CHEAP. How many times you suffered the loose of your CE (for comparison SP are really punishing each time you loose them). The only valid justification is that SU starves in manpower. Still they get a helping hand with CE being that cheap.

They could use a UTILITY buff, you get my idea now?
And democharges were a good thing, dont misunderstand my opinion about CE.

problem is they arent even worth 170mp as a utility unit... if they had emplacements + improved repair speed maybe... but as of now they seem more like a 150 or even a 140mp unit...

either
1. improve its utility...
or
2. make it cheaper...


Pios bring Combat utility, and thats why SU has conscript. The only extra task is that you have 2 squads doing different things and need a little more micro, but the advantages and flexibility are far more than 1 single squad doing both.


conscripts suck badly though... without a ppsh doc theyre arguably worse than pios... at least pios get flamers and construct lots of structures + sandbags + lays (better) mines... ive even had a friend that tried pio spamming vs an equivalent cons spam... the pio spam had the upper hand till i got the T-70...


The problem is that you are willingly ignorin what CE are good at (even a little) to obfuscate it with your wish for CE to be good at. I understand your position, but being in denial wont help to change it.
Making them cheaper could be a good idea tho


they arent good enough to justify their price though even with their current utility... they definitely should be cheaper... or at least get sandbags + emplacements...
11 Jan 2019, 19:42 PM
#49
avatar of carloff

Posts: 301

- please add combat helms on penal and combat engineers models
- if possible, can combat engineers get an upgrade in urban doctrine (in place for Shock Troops) - for X munition for +1 man to the squad, 4 PPsH, 1 Flamer, smoke grenades.

(But I have already told this won't happen. Even combat helms)

edit.
Btw, they kinda fine then you are playing double CE with double flamers.
11 Jan 2019, 20:11 PM
#50
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 4559 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2019, 19:42 PMcarloff
...can combat engineers get an upgrade in urban doctrine (in place for Shock Troops) - for X munition for +1 man to the squad, 4 PPsH, 1 Flamer, smoke grenades.
..


There seems to be a misunderstanding about smgs and Flamers. Actually Flamer optimal range is 20 since its DPS is the same at all ranges.

Giving Smgs to flamer unit actually reduces the DPs of the unit at optimal range (unless the units can close in to ranges bellow 12 that are (usually )optimal for SMGs)

Giving PPSh to C.E. is actually a nerf and not a buff.
12 Jan 2019, 18:21 PM
#51
avatar of Domine

Posts: 415

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Jan 2019, 19:42 PMcarloff
- please add combat helms on penal and combat engineers models
- if possible, can combat engineers get an upgrade in urban doctrine (in place for Shock Troops) - for X munition for +1 man to the squad, 4 PPsH, 1 Flamer, smoke grenades.

(But I have already told this won't happen. Even combat helms)

edit.
Btw, they kinda fine then you are playing double CE with double flamers.



Who gives a shit about helmet models lmao
12 Jan 2019, 18:43 PM
#52
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 2225

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Jan 2019, 19:46 PMVipper

They are also the cheapest engineer unit.
I wouldn't say it is hard to vet them get them flamer and merge during combat, pios are probably harder to vet.
What could be changed would be keep DPS the same but lower damage for more accuracy.

+1
12 Jan 2019, 18:52 PM
#53
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 1137 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jan 2019, 18:21 PMDomine



Who gives a shit about helmet models lmao


I care, because the typical front line engineer-sapper looked like this:

and not like a bunch of homeless in the rabble, as it is in the game
12 Jan 2019, 22:04 PM
#54
avatar of Baba

Posts: 216

have you seen vikings? the history channel made tv show? ever wondered why in battle, they only were leather tunics instead of armor and helmets?
14 Jan 2019, 22:18 PM
#55
avatar of WingZero

Posts: 1247

Would an extra model help CE? Like maybe a 5 man squad?
14 Jan 2019, 22:42 PM
#56
avatar of gbem

Posts: 706

^nah that would make them too deadly... just remove the combat from the name (engineers only) and make them 150mp...
15 Jan 2019, 11:20 AM
#57
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 103

Remove trip wire flares, vet 1 grants an additional 10% repair speed. Minesweeper grants a further 10% repair speed. Combat package provides both body armor and flamethrower, increase armor to 1.1 or 1.2. Combat package and minesweeper remain mutually exclusive. Increase mp cost to 180.


Wehrmacht pios will need a buff as well. Recommend cost decrease to 180mp and reduce reinforce cost to 23. Vet 1 adds +10% repair speed on top of medkits.
15 Jan 2019, 11:27 AM
#58
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 12152 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 11:20 AMSerrith
Remove trip wire flares, vet 1 grants an additional 10% repair speed. Minesweeper grants a further 10% repair speed. Combat package provides both body armor and flamethrower, increase armor to 1.1 or 1.2. Combat package and minesweeper remain mutually exclusive. Increase mp cost to 180.


Wehrmacht pios will need a buff as well. Recommend cost decrease to 180mp and reduce reinforce cost to 23. Vet 1 adds +10% repair speed on top of medkits.


Buffing flamer is unneeded, its vanila and sweeper CEs that are trash.

Wehr pios were buffed already by giving them extra sight and weapon buffs.
15 Jan 2019, 11:37 AM
#59
avatar of Serrith

Posts: 103

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Jan 2019, 11:27 AMKatitof


Buffing flamer is unneeded, its vanila and sweeper CEs that are trash.

Wehr pios were buffed already by giving them extra sight and weapon buffs.


Problem with sweeper is slow experience accumulation meaning CE have a hard time getting vet to increase repair speed. Adding repair speed buff to sweepers offsets this. This has the effect of making flamethrower upgrade much worse as you sacrifice both sweeping and repair speed so the armor buff to make it a more attractive combat upgrade.

Pios are in the long run more difficult to vet up especially a replacement. This is because the pios weapon only shines in close quarters and as you and i know, getting there isnt easy. At least CE can provide constant chipping damage at mid and long range.
15 Jan 2019, 12:10 PM
#60
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1582 | Subs: 2

We could start by giving back 25% of squad DPS to sweeper CEs and Pios by giving them option to put away sweeper. I know that isn't much and totally not comparable to vet gained from flamer, but it is at least something.
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