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How are Jäger Light Infantry OP?

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28 Dec 2018, 08:47 AM
#1
avatar of GuyFromTheSky

Posts: 229

I keep seeing all the time how JLI are OP and need a nerf but i haven't seen yet any good arguments to why. Is it the spawning from building thing? The 80% snipe?

For me personally i am having way more trouble dealing with shocks and assault engineers. Please enlighten me to why JLI need a nerf and how to make them good.
ddd
28 Dec 2018, 09:03 AM
#2
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

The good argument is their insane cost efficiency. I uploaded replay showing how jli spam can win you a game, take a look if you want. They are way too cheap.
28 Dec 2018, 10:14 AM
#3
avatar of JacK_Qc

Posts: 33

Cost effiency? They cost the same as volksgrenadier but count only 4 men in squad
vet max 3 star.

They only a long range option and a little weaker then volks.

ddd
28 Dec 2018, 10:32 AM
#4
avatar of ddd

Posts: 528 | Subs: 1

Sorry to break it for you but jagers are much stronger than volks. They lack some of volks utility but have better firepower for dirt cheap 250mp cost.
28 Dec 2018, 10:52 AM
#5
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2018, 10:14 AMJacK_Qc
Cost effiency? They cost the same as volksgrenadier but count only 4 men in squad
vet max 3 star.

They only a long range option and a little weaker then volks.



nope... they get a 70% crit sniper rifle and slaughter penals at all ranges above 10...

imo the main issue here is that 70% crit sniper rifle... its too good for a 45 muni 250mp squad... nerfing it to pathfinder standards (40% crit) would fix JLI by bringing them inline with I&R paths
28 Dec 2018, 17:41 PM
#6
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Dec 2018, 10:14 AMJacK_Qc
Cost effiency? They cost the same as volksgrenadier but count only 4 men in squad
vet max 3 star.

They only a long range option and a little weaker then volks.


You are aware that there is more to cost effeciency than model count right? Cons have MORE models than volks but are widely accepted as trash tier uneffecient troops...
For the same price as volks you get a force multiplier. The ability to outright kill any model who has <60/80hp left. That's nuts for only 250mp and 45mu.

They also have the same durability as panzer grens/Tommies (bot of whom cost more)
Despite the price however you shouldn't be comparing them to volks. Compare them to the 290mp pathfinders or 360mp snipers as they have more in common
28 Dec 2018, 17:49 PM
#7
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 261

For reference:


Pathfinder cost 290 MP while JLI cost 250 MP
28 Dec 2018, 17:55 PM
#8
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

JLI punch waaaaaay above their weight, due to their low cost but extremely high lethality, everything else is just gravy.
28 Dec 2018, 20:55 PM
#9
avatar of GuyFromTheSky

Posts: 229

For reference:


Pathfinder cost 290 MP while JLI cost 250 MP


I really appreciate you doing these. Thank you.
28 Dec 2018, 23:30 PM
#10
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3053

A sniper rifle that has 1.15 accuracy (so 115% chance to hit on models with a target size of 1) and a kill crit at 70% hp means that they are way too efficient at infantry killing for how cheap and available they are, which leads to them being spammed. IIRC like 2-3 regular rifle (kar98) hits is enough to let an infantryman get crit by the sniper rifle just for a tangible comparison. They also get booby traps, medkits, and a first strike bonus out of camouflage. They’re just straight up much better than their only counterparts (pathfinders and IR pathfinders) for no reason, while also being cheaper in manpower than normal paths (IR paths are cheaper but only have 1 sniper as opposed to normal paths’ 2, which are inferior to the jaeger sniper rifle as the path snipers crit at 40% hp and have somewhere around .9 accuracy). Jaegers do have a muni cost for the sniper upgrade but it’s really negligible and is one of the cheapest weapon upgrades in the game.
29 Dec 2018, 00:33 AM
#11
avatar of addvaluejack

Posts: 261



I really appreciate you doing these. Thank you.


You are welcome.
29 Dec 2018, 03:43 AM
#12
avatar of JacK_Qc

Posts: 33

Jeager Light Infantry

-Added to the doctrine.
-CP requirement from 2 to 1.
-Must buy their sniper rifle for 45 munitions. Requires 1 truck to be deployed.
-Squad cost from 300 to 250.
-Reinforce from 37 to 31
-Reinforce time from 7.5 to 6
-Salvage ability now available; replaced by Thorough Salvage in Scavenge Doctrine.
-Veterancy requirements from 660/1320/2240/3520/4400 to 520/1040/2080/3120/3970
-Camouflage is now available at Veterancy 0
-Now has First-Strike Bonuses; increases accuracy by 50% for 5 seconds.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle light and heavy cover accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle garrison accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9
-Booby traps standardized to the new Soviet version (-Cost reduced from 100 to 45, Damage from 250 to 80, AOE distance from 1.5/3/4.5 to 0.25/3/6) This also applies to Obersoldaten and Stormtroopers

I think what they did is a overall buff to make them compete to volks( make them apealing again). Dont try to compare JLi with pathfinder. They are from differant faction and for balence purpose should not be equals.
You can't balence this game thinking all unit follow the same price / effectiveness partern since each faction strenght are based on differant aspect of the game.
The last patch update was a way to dust off unused commander or units.

Now compare max vet volks/JLi/obersoldaten/fallshimgaeger in game and you will see that it is not overperforming late game.

However I agree that they could get a minor nerf. Anything major would just make them useless again.

29 Dec 2018, 05:39 AM
#13
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2018, 03:43 AMJacK_Qc
Jeager Light Infantry

-Added to the doctrine.
-CP requirement from 2 to 1.
-Must buy their sniper rifle for 45 munitions. Requires 1 truck to be deployed.
-Squad cost from 300 to 250.
-Reinforce from 37 to 31
-Reinforce time from 7.5 to 6
-Salvage ability now available; replaced by Thorough Salvage in Scavenge Doctrine.
-Veterancy requirements from 660/1320/2240/3520/4400 to 520/1040/2080/3120/3970
-Camouflage is now available at Veterancy 0
-Now has First-Strike Bonuses; increases accuracy by 50% for 5 seconds.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle light and heavy cover accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9.
-JLI G43 Sniper Rifle garrison accuracy modifiers from 0.5 to 0.9
-Booby traps standardized to the new Soviet version (-Cost reduced from 100 to 45, Damage from 250 to 80, AOE distance from 1.5/3/4.5 to 0.25/3/6) This also applies to Obersoldaten and Stormtroopers

I think what they did is a overall buff to make them compete to volks( make them apealing again). Dont try to compare JLi with pathfinder. They are from differant faction and for balence purpose should not be equals because they will just never be used anymore.
The last patch update was a way to dust off unused commander or units.

Now compare vet 5 volks to vet 3 JLi in game and you will see that is not not overperforming.



actually ive compared them to penals... they beat penals at all ranges above 10m... the fact they are crushing one of the strongest infantry ingame alive means that they are ridiculously OP
29 Dec 2018, 06:00 AM
#14
avatar of JacK_Qc

Posts: 33

Stg volks also crush penal close range. What does it prove?
29 Dec 2018, 06:15 AM
#15
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2018, 06:00 AMJacK_Qc
Stg volks also crush penal close range. What does it prove?


stg volks dont beat penals at range 10 20 30 and above... stg volks beat penals only at range 10 to 0....

JLI beat penals at range 10 20 30 and beyond....

in other words JLI beat penals at short medium and long range and only start losing at hugging distance
29 Dec 2018, 06:39 AM
#16
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2018, 03:43 AMJacK_Qc

I think what they did is a overall buff to make them compete to volks( make them apealing again). Dont try to compare JLi with pathfinder. They are from differant faction and for balence purpose should not be equals.
You can't balence this game thinking all unit follow the same price / effectiveness partern since each faction strenght are based on differant aspect of the game.
The last patch update was a way to dust off unused commander or units.

However I agree that they could get a minor nerf. Anything major would just make them useless again.




JLI shouldn’t be competing for a spot against volks as they aren’t main line infantry. The issue right now is that spamming them is too easy because they are super cheap with a cheap upgrade.

They shouldn’t get any performance nerfs in my opinion, they are just way too cheap and making them cost more should be sufficient.
29 Dec 2018, 08:27 AM
#17
avatar of JacK_Qc

Posts: 33

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2018, 06:15 AMgbem


stg volks dont beat penals at range 10 20 30 and above... stg volks beat penals only at range 10 to 0....

JLI beat penals at range 10 20 30 and beyond....

in other words JLI beat penals at short medium and long range and only start losing at hugging distance



You can't balence this game simply by saying unit A(250mp) > unit B(300mp) in 1v1. They have different role. Penal are versatile as they can go ptrs anti tank or mount on top of armored car.


29 Dec 2018, 09:16 AM
#18
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 378

I keep seeing all the time how JLI are OP and need a nerf but i haven't seen yet any good arguments to why. Is it the spawning from building thing? The 80% snipe?

For me personally i am having way more trouble dealing with shocks and assault engineers. Please enlighten me to why JLI need a nerf and how to make them good.


They are cost efficient. They don't need a nerf to utility, vet or combat ability. The only nerf suitable is cost. Its just certain players are unable to adapt and those players are loud.
29 Dec 2018, 09:17 AM
#19
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 378

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2018, 06:15 AMgbem


stg volks dont beat penals at range 10 20 30 and above... stg volks beat penals only at range 10 to 0....

JLI beat penals at range 10 20 30 and beyond....

in other words JLI beat penals at short medium and long range and only start losing at hugging distance


Wrong and ill-informed as always.
29 Dec 2018, 10:16 AM
#20
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post29 Dec 2018, 05:39 AMgbem
actually ive compared them to penals... they beat penals at all ranges above 10m... the fact they are crushing one of the strongest infantry ingame alive means that they are ridiculously OP


So we should increase the cost of all Allied TDs to 850MP and 350FU, because they beat a King Tiger at all ranges above 40? Your argument is stupid.
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