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OKW Sector Assault needs to be fixed ASAP

19 Dec 2018, 06:32 AM
#21
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 211

Its not OP though.
19 Dec 2018, 06:53 AM
#22
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 337

Overwatch should've never had this ability back, fighting this commander is pure nightmare, JLI popping out of buldings behind your lines, goliaths, free flares and fatherland-buffed JLI blobs are bad enough, but howitzer spam along this ability bombing back your artillery is massive overkill. It was more or less balanced before this ability was returned and buffed to hell, now every teamgame is just OKW spamming broken Overwatch.

19 Dec 2018, 07:52 AM
#23
avatar of srider

Posts: 11

Let's make some things clear which even after 5 years it doesn't seem like it.

Loiter planes have 2 phases. Tracking and attacking.
Tracking: UI bugs aside, the plane will loiter around looking for targets inside the circle. Once it identifies a viable target, it will go to the 2nd phase.
Attacking: whatever the target position is (inside or outside the circle), the plane will proceed to strafe it.



In both cases, you can see clearly in the minimap how the plane goes outside the circle in a straight line to start the strafing attack. In the first case, it goes for the AT gun and in the 2nd case it's the Pershing.

PD: just in case, i'm not emitting any type of balance opinion about it, even if it looks ridiculous. Just clarifying what is happening.


Knowing what happens exactly doesn't excuse the idea that this ability is detrimental to the game in it's current state.
If the ability is working as intended, then the UI is misleading and causes frustrations.
If the ability is not working as intended, it is broken and needs to be fixed.
19 Dec 2018, 07:57 AM
#24
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2873

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 07:52 AMsrider


Knowing what happens exactly doesn't excuse the idea that this ability is detrimental to the game in it's current state.
If the ability is working as intended, then the UI is misleading and causes frustrations.
If the ability is not working as intended, it is broken and needs to be fixed.


If the UI is misleading, how would you modify it to include that sort of information? The ability uses only one range - the range of target acquisition. The attack is not limited in range. So you can't really show more than just the target acquisition range in the UI.

With the small bit of knowledge about how the ability works, the UI is crystal clear in this case, at least in my opionion.
19 Dec 2018, 08:41 AM
#25
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

Another thing that I have noticed yesterday is that sometimes there seem to be random bomb drops even after the ability has ended for a while. (timer stopped, circle disappeared) Not sure what this is about?

19 Dec 2018, 08:43 AM
#26
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 06:32 AMNaOCl
Its not OP though.


Care to elaborate WHY you think it´s not OP?
19 Dec 2018, 08:53 AM
#27
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 211



Care to elaborate WHY you think it´s not OP?


Small area, bombs dont drop for 20 seconds, learn to pay attention, its area denial ability
19 Dec 2018, 08:54 AM
#28
avatar of srider

Posts: 11



If the UI is misleading, how would you modify it to include that sort of information? The ability uses only one range - the range of target acquisition. The attack is not limited in range. So you can't really show more than just the target acquisition range in the UI.

With the small bit of knowledge about how the ability works, the UI is crystal clear in this case, at least in my opionion.


If the ability is working as intended, and it has 2 stages, the UI should have 2 stages.
First stage would work as it currently does.
Once it enters second stage, it should no longer show the large circle, but display the unit that is being targeted, either by highlighting, or show a blip on the map. Another possibility is to simply show exactly where the bomb will be dropped, as is the case with abilities like Air Supremacy with the Brits.

Other abilities do things like highlighting the map to show you exactly where potential attack comes in to let the user manage RNG. Sector assault as it stands does not do a good job of this.
19 Dec 2018, 09:00 AM
#29
avatar of GreyKnight93

Posts: 84

Though i should save the clip of it. But this is happen to me when i use this ability on my opponent.

After the sector artillery ability is done, i move my troops up to spot some ally enemies, then out of nowhere the bombs drop on them. AFTER The ability has done. I believe is because i activated the ability but because no sight on the area the bombs didn't drop, but after the ability the effect is still present. I saved the replay. Maybe i should upload that clip once i am free
19 Dec 2018, 09:00 AM
#30
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 08:53 AMNaOCl


Small area, bombs dont drop for 20 seconds, learn to pay attention, its area denial ability



Not sure if you are serious or just trolling. Even if you move away the bombs still target your units once they are spotted in the circle. It´s not area denial but a kill the enemy army now button. Plus it´s also bugged as hell attacking units way outside the circle, dropping bombs after the ability has already come to an end etc. Plus it comes at only 10 CP and costs 250 munitions. If you make a off map strike OP like Sector Assault at least make it 12 CP 300 muni otherwise it´s just stupid.
19 Dec 2018, 09:02 AM
#31
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

Though i should save the clip of it. But this is happen to me when i use this ability on my opponent.

After the sector artillery ability is done, i move my troops up to spot some ally enemies, then out of nowhere the bombs drop on them. AFTER The ability has done. I believe is because i activated the ability but because no sight on the area the bombs didn't drop, but after the ability the effect is still present. I saved the replay. Maybe i should upload that clip once i am free



Happened to my opponent yesterday too. Way after the ability has ended his T34 and repairing engineers got destroyed by my Sector assault and they weren´t even close to where I called it in. So weird.
19 Dec 2018, 09:11 AM
#32
avatar of Latch

Posts: 401


Who should have tested this ability then?

Edit: that is to say, who should have tested this ability and discovered how bat shit OP it was?


Whoever had it used against them in the testing grounds would have noticed how broken it is surley? I noticed the first time it was used against me and saw how BS it was as did thr majority of other people.
19 Dec 2018, 09:11 AM
#33
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 959

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 09:11 AMLatch


Whoever had it used against them in the testing grounds would have noticed how broken it is surley? I noticed the first time it was used against me and saw how BS it was as did thr majority of other people.



Most people never play the mods when balance patches are in the works. That´s why stuff like this happens.
19 Dec 2018, 09:21 AM
#34
avatar of Latch

Posts: 401




Most people never play the mods when balance patches are in the works. That´s why stuff like this happens.


Of course but SOMEONE on the balance team suggested it, tested it and said "That's fine" didn't they and those that did test it MUST have brought it up.
19 Dec 2018, 09:30 AM
#35
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11757 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 09:21 AMLatch


Of course but SOMEONE on the balance team suggested it, tested it and said "That's fine" didn't they and those that did test it MUST have brought it up.

All of the balance team and relic also said "please download the mod, try these out and give your feedback".
19 Dec 2018, 10:02 AM
#36
avatar of Latch

Posts: 401

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 09:30 AMKatitof

All of the balance team and relic also said "please download the mod, try these out and give your feedback".


Speaking to me specifically were they? QA mate, QA that's all I'm saying
19 Dec 2018, 10:08 AM
#37
avatar of GuyFromTheSky

Posts: 223

If they change it so it doesn't bomb inside base sector and doesn't bomb retreating squads, it's OK imo.
19 Dec 2018, 10:18 AM
#38
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11757 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 10:02 AMLatch


Speaking to me specifically were they? QA mate, QA that's all I'm saying

CoH2 is supported by skeleton crew.
I would be greatly surprised if there was any kind of QA.
Plus, QA job is to check if the ability works as its described in documentation, not evaluate its potential.
19 Dec 2018, 10:38 AM
#39
avatar of Latch

Posts: 401

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 10:18 AMKatitof

CoH2 is supported by skeleton crew.
I would be greatly surprised if there was any kind of QA.
Plus, QA job is to check if the ability works as its described in documentation, not evaluate its potential.


Exactly, which it doesn't, otherwise the UI indication would be bigger and they would see its broken so QA is needed. There is no excuse for not having QA, I don't care how many people are assigned the game, its an essential part of games design along with releasing patches...
19 Dec 2018, 10:46 AM
#40
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 5595 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 07:52 AMsrider


Knowing what happens exactly doesn't excuse the idea that this ability is detrimental to the game in it's current state.
If the ability is working as intended, then the UI is misleading and causes frustrations.
If the ability is not working as intended, it is broken and needs to be fixed.


Again, this is how ALL LOITER PLANES work in this game. You are asking for a change which is not feasible (IMO) since this is how it has been working for 5 years since the release of the game.

The UI can cause frustrations but it's something players need to learn. It applies to all components of this game.
Think about how scatter works with barrage type abilities (which can and will most of the time overshoot from the designated area at max range or how you can use attack ground to bypass max range targeting on ballistic weapons. Another example: snares. You just need to be in on targeting range, in order to use them. Even when vehicles darts away at max speed, the projectile will chase it down.

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Dec 2018, 08:54 AMsrider


If the ability is working as intended, and it has 2 stages, the UI should have 2 stages.
First stage would work as it currently does.
Once it enters second stage, it should no longer show the large circle, but display the unit that is being targeted, either by highlighting, or show a blip on the map. Another possibility is to simply show exactly where the bomb will be dropped, as is the case with abilities like Air Supremacy with the Brits.

Other abilities do things like highlighting the map to show you exactly where potential attack comes in to let the user manage RNG. Sector assault as it stands does not do a good job of this.


This is not how the game works. Let me explain.
-IL2, AT Stuka, P47, Typhoons, etc. don't show which unit they are targeting. This also applies to any if not all offmaps. The only queue you have is the area on which the targeting begins. Be it by the initial flares or the circle area.
-As i said before all loiter planes will chase you down till the end of times. The difference comes from either the accuracy or the speed at which they do so. From most vids i've seen is that players enter in a false sense of "safety" which makes them stop their units.


UNDERSTANDING N FIXING the bombing aspect of the ability:

-First of all it would be for the best, to ask modders how exactly this ability work prior to the rework. From memory, the bombing aspect of the ability was really crap due to time of arrival, accuracy and/or numbers of bombs been thrown around.
-IF all they did was amp up the accuracy or how the tracking works, it could be peddle down from it's current state. The bombing should be effective against static targets INSIDE the circle or close to it and not as much as chasing down targets so far away. This is one of those cases on which a "BUFF" to the speed on which it bombs its targets will actually result in an overall nerf.

It would be great is someone did a test to see how the ability works against moving targets.
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