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IS2- Is it worth buying?

Is it worth buying the IS2
Option Distribution Votes
33%
57%
9%
Should the IS2 be buffed?
Option Distribution Votes
44%
56%
Total votes: 106
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
3 Dec 2018, 07:23 AM
#1
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 119

Same thread as KT, to see if the problem lies with all Heavy Tanks in COH2 being underwhelming. (Execpt Pershing)
3 Dec 2018, 07:55 AM
#2
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 115

I do not play too much soviets but i never use is 2. Mainly it is because i dont like commanders it is in, one being shock commander and second having too much focus on vehicles. If there was third option with guard rifles id use it.
3 Dec 2018, 08:17 AM
#3
avatar of Osinyagov
Senior Modmaker Badge

Posts: 741 | Subs: 1

Commander with T-34-85 and IS-2 is one of my favorite. I do like IS-2 and use it quite often, but some buff for first veterancy and gun damage (with increased cost) would be really appreciated. And it's connected with my love to late-war soviet vehicles.

It is not really bad, like Tiger II in nowadays, but premium mediums or mass heavies, like churchills or KV-1, looks prettier. If there wasn't doctrine with T-34-85 and IS-2, i wouldn't use it so often.

Also, self-repair makes the day. :p
3 Dec 2018, 09:17 AM
#4
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 948 | Subs: 1

Buying an IS-2 is the worst investment of resources you have. Just buy SU-85 plus Katyusha.
IS-2 is not bad with the 2nd veteran level, but there is a main problem: the main gun of IS-2 does not cause damage, no damage - no vet - no sense.
3 Dec 2018, 09:30 AM
#5
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 202

IS2 is actually very good. In 1v1 particularly, it causes a very serious timing problem for both Ost and OKW because it comes right after the 1 medium tank phase. The problem with IS2 is indirect - it's because Guards are too awesome, and IS2 Commanders don't have Guards. Vs OKW call-in Command Panther is too powerful and too bail-out in nature, so players often feel the IS2 is underwhelming when the actual problems lie elsewhere.

The best IS2 commander is probably armoured assault, but I find t34-85s and IS2 in the same commander is too much role overlap. And choosing that commander puts a lot of pressure on me in the early to mid game to win the infantry and LV phase without Guards. If my Ost opponent goes flame HT into Puma (which is pretty common), not having Guards is going to make life very difficult, since AT Penals don't have button AND they have far worse AI performance compared to Guards.

If armoured assault swapped the T34-85 for Guards (I know it's a bad idea), people will start to realise that the IS2 is actually a very good heavy tank.

The main thrust of my point is that Guards positively influence the early-mid to early-late game state so much, so if you go for an IS2 Commander, the opponent you're fighting will basically have much more map control, resources, and army size by virtue of the Sov player no longer having access to arguably the best elite infantry call-in in the game.
3 Dec 2018, 09:40 AM
#6
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 115

I really wish the new soviet commander is something like Guards Heavy mechanized tactics with guard rifles and is 2
3 Dec 2018, 13:12 PM
#7
avatar of NaOCl

Posts: 119

Strange how more people think the IS-2 is fine, yet that KT needs buffs.
3 Dec 2018, 13:24 PM
#8
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3535 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 13:12 PMNaOCl
Strange how more people think the IS-2 is fine, yet that KT needs buffs.

It might look strange if you simply compared then 2 units, it might stop looking strange once you factor in that one has high tech cost and other does not have any tech cost, and the available counters to high armor available to each side.
3 Dec 2018, 13:31 PM
#9
avatar of Crecer13

Posts: 948 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 13:12 PMNaOCl
Strange how more people think the IS-2 is fine, yet that KT needs buffs.

People just want to return those times when almost every KT shot is six people wipe. KT can do that now, but people want to return the Totalalic OP. But at the same time they claim that the IS-2 is absolutely fine, but it is not so: his gun constantly misses in huge blob of infantry or does not penetrate armor. IS-2 just does not cause damage. You practically will not see the 3rd level of the IS-2 veterancy and very often you will see the 3-5th level of the RT veterancy.
3 Dec 2018, 13:33 PM
#10
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 688

The IS-2 does not face 60 range high pen TDs, comes much earlier as a tech-less callin and is about 30% faster. It gains veterancy much faster and the veterancy bonusses are good.

That's a huge difference compared to the KT. That said though, the IS-2 (and all heavy tanks) needs a main gun overhaul with better accuracy/scatter but spread out AOE profile so it can reliably deal damage to infantry (without wiping squads).


People just want to return those times when almost every KT shot is six people wipe. KT can do that now, but people want to return the Totalalic OP. But at the same time they claim that the IS-2 is absolutely fine, but it is not so: his gun constantly misses in huge blob of infantry or does not penetrate armor. IS-2 just does not cause damage. You practically will not see the 3rd level of the IS-2 veterancy and very often you will see the 3-5th level of the RT veterancy.


These are blatant lies. If you check out the other thread about the KT you will notice the absolute vast majority of people recognizes that the 'old KT' was bad for gameplay but the current version is underpowered and that moderate buffs are needed.

Furthermore the IS-2 and the KT have exactly the same accuracy and scatter stats, and the penetration of the IS-2 is even higher. So your claims that the IS-2 'does not penetrate armor' and 'does not cause damage' are false. The only difference in favor of the KT is that its gun does 240 damage rather than the 160 of the IS-2.

Vet 4-5 KTs are extremely rare due to very high veterancy requirements. If you see them often you're definitely doing something wrong.
3 Dec 2018, 13:35 PM
#11
avatar of Lago

Posts: 952

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 13:12 PMNaOCl
Strange how more people think the IS-2 is fine, yet that KT needs buffs.


The IS-2's a call-in. Once you hit 13 CP it's available regardless of tech. It can bail you out if you get stuck in T3, or you can bring it in late-game if your opponent overinvests in basic mediums.

The King Tiger requires you to build the remaining tier, which means the effective cost to call it in assuming you've already got your Schwerer up is over 900 MP 300 FU. That's roughly the same as two OKW Panzer IVs, which'll hit the field faster.

The IS-2 does not face 60 range high pen TDs,

this makes the jagdpanzer iv a sad... um.... panda doesn't work here. sad metal box on tracks?
3 Dec 2018, 13:41 PM
#12
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 11228 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 13:24 PMVipper

It might look strange if you simply compared then 2 units, it might stop looking strange once you factor in that one has high tech cost and other does not have any tech cost, and the available counters to high armor available to each side.


Cost doesn't cause casualties.
Armor doesn't cause casualties.
Speed, acceleration and rotation doesn't cause casualties(on heabvies).
Being in tech or doctrinal doesn't cause casualties.
The fact that high armor actually can be countered is irrelevant, its meant to be.

Reliable gun causes casualties.

IS-2 does not have reliable gun.
KT does not have reliable gun.

Both guns are fine vs armor, but if you wanted something to kill armor, both sides have cheaper and more efficient alternatives.
3 Dec 2018, 13:47 PM
#13
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3535 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 13:41 PMKatitof

Cost doesn't cause casualties.
Armor doesn't cause casualties.
Speed, acceleration and rotation doesn't cause casualties(on heabvies).
Being in tech or doctrinal doesn't cause casualties.
The fact that high armor actually can be countered is irrelevant, its meant to be.

Reliable gun causes casualties.

IS-2 does not have reliable gun.
KT does not have reliable gun.

PLS do not quote me if what you are going to write have anything to do what you have quoted, that creates the impression that I have made false claim and it tantamount in actually putting words in my mouth .

I never claimed that: Cost does cause casualties.
I never claimed that: Armor does cause casualties.
I never claimed that: Speed, acceleration and rotation does cause casualties
I never claimed that: Being in tech or doctrinal does cause casualties.

"The fact that high armor actually can be countered is irrelevant, its meant to be."
This simply Katitof's BS theories..



I never claimed that: IS-2 does have reliable gun.
I never claimed that: KT does have reliable gun.

BB and have a nice day.
3 Dec 2018, 15:14 PM
#14
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 202

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 13:12 PMNaOCl
Strange how more people think the IS-2 is fine, yet that KT needs buffs.


Because the IS2 is cheaper, faster, has better turret traverse, and is a tech-free call-in vs KT being the most expensive tech cost in the game.

Once you get more experienced with the game, you'll realise that timing is super important.


The Luchs had a 90 seconds build time in the previous patch, making it a seldom-used pick because it came out at the same time as the T70, later than the AEC, and for such a unit, losing a full minute of shock value meant it had a very small window of opportunity remaining.

One of the biggest appeals of Falls (apart from cloak) is that they come very, very early for an elite infantry unit. Obers come at the 10 min mark if you didn't go for a Light Vehicle, and realistically come at about 12 or 13 mins for most games. Falls come at the 6 to 7 min mark, which gives them so much time to dominate infantry engagements and affect the rest of the game's development compared to Obers.

Tech-cost/timing relate to shock value - the IS2 can and often does come at the timing of Axis having just 1 medium tank and saving fuel for another. The KT comes at the time when the Allied player should have multiple mediums AND a 60 range TD. In raw stats alone, the KT isn't much different from the IS2. Timing-wise, the IS2 actually has a window of opportunity and a chance to vet up as well as impose its will on the battlefield but the KT doesn't.
3 Dec 2018, 19:03 PM
#15
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 890

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Dec 2018, 07:23 AMNaOCl
Same thread as KT, to see if the problem lies with all Heavy Tanks in COH2 being underwhelming. (Execpt Pershing)


Anyone here use Pershings in a 4v4?
3 Dec 2018, 22:02 PM
#16
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1194

Two things
1. I think the IS2 should do more damage to counter heavy panther build
2. or the accuracy should be adjusted to help increase DPS.

Its commanders aren't all that great and lack a mid-game. Unit is over-shadowed as many people only see the unit relative to total faction power in. As a stand-alone unit its rather timid and is more or a less an easy to counter damage soaker (which is sort of its role but it needs more "empff" to it).
3 Dec 2018, 22:03 PM
#17
avatar of Mittens
Donator 11

Posts: 1194



Anyone here use Pershings in a 4v4?


A good thank that needs a health buff. no b/c it gets outclassed by JT,ELE, and mass amounts of panthers that it cant counter.
3 Dec 2018, 23:34 PM
#18
avatar of EffenNewbie

Posts: 890



A good thank that needs a health buff. no b/c it gets outclassed by JT,ELE, and mass amounts of panthers that it cant counter.


Exactly - it makes the unit and commander too situational.
3 Dec 2018, 23:43 PM
#19
avatar of Cresc

Posts: 172

The IS2 is fine, why would it need a buff?
I'm not sure how it's situational, so far in Soviet's current meta everything is situational except penals and guards.

Depending on your build, saving for an IS2 is always worth it if it's part of your late game strategy and say you can provide yourself with Zis guns.
4 Dec 2018, 01:55 AM
#20
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 6

IS-2 is good for:
+ pure call in
+ suit for turrle play
+ the commander which have IS-2 is petty good ( radio incepter help you know enemies build order, T-34-85 + KV-8 for supporting IS-2)
+ IS-2 itself is best decoy, fast heavy tank and amor is full of Stalinium xD
about 122mm gun, gib it 200 dmg, not 180 dmg. You better attack ground and press Stop before shot.

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