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Why is usf at gun so bad?

28 Nov 2018, 02:18 AM
#21
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930




It’s cuz LT tier > Capt Tier so you don’t see it that often.


actually, captain is MUCH better, all 3 units are great. meanwhile at LT all 3 units are meh.

Captain is especially great at team games where howie will fire nonstop and AT + stuart will shutdown everything. Plus the captain abilites are so good, on me! can cause so much pain late game and supervision can make you pump out units super fast.
28 Nov 2018, 02:25 AM
#22
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2018, 02:18 AMzerocoh


actually, captain is MUCH better, all 3 units are great. meanwhile at LT all 3 units are meh.

Captain is especially great at team games where howie will fire nonstop and AT + stuart will shutdown everything. Plus the captain abilites are so good, on me! can cause so much pain late game and supervision can make you pump out units super fast.


LT is pretty important in most games to prevent OKW overwelming you with infantry, M20 is pretty meh but the 50 cal and AA HT are both very good units. Can’t also has good units and I agree capt is pretty solid in team games especially if you go Airborne. But the AA HT is currently very powerful.




(Fairly off topic)

It's about time a lot of myths died. People will spam "raketen LUL" when a rak misses a shot any other AT gun would have too. People will spam "IS2 LUL" when an IS2 completely whiffs a shot from its main gun (and then completely overlook when it fires again and destroys 3 models). These confirmation bias threads and comments get old really quickly.



In the 2v2 tourney one guy would spam another useless Stuka barrage during the Hans DevM game, it had something like 40 kills.
28 Nov 2018, 02:41 AM
#23
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

The main thing I tend to witness with USF and their ATGs is that they're usually late and often alone. All those rifles and officers demand that manpower.

And so does the Brummbar. :megusta:
28 Nov 2018, 02:50 AM
#24
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930



LT is pretty important in most games to prevent OKW overwelming you with infantry, M20 is pretty meh but the 50 cal and AA HT are both very good units. Can’t also has good units and I agree capt is pretty solid in team games especially if you go Airborne. But the AA HT is currently very powerful.



you really don't need LT, you can hold out until shermans or just get BARs and focus down squads, pack howie will pay itself very fast, stuart is also okay if the opponent is spread out.
AAHT will die pretty easy to good raketen players not worth the 60 fuel IMO, not to mention the thing is awful at killing making your opponent float tons of manpower.

The main thing I tend to witness with USF and their ATGs is that they're usually late and often alone. All those rifles and officers demand that manpower.

And so does the Brummbar. :megusta:


ATG is not late, they are cheap and captain can speed it up. Also, if you are fighting brumms with ATGs you are doing it wrong.

28 Nov 2018, 03:16 AM
#25
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4


(Fairly off topic)

It's about time a lot of myths died. People will spam "raketen LUL" when a rak misses a shot any other AT gun would have too. People will spam "IS2 LUL" when an IS2 completely whiffs a shot from its main gun (and then completely overlook when it fires again and destroys 3 models). These confirmation bias threads and comments get old really quickly.


The rak has the same accuracy now as others yes, but does it still suffer from collision issues? And checking the box in the mod tools that says "collides with terrain" as "False" doesn't prevent bugs etc. It's like some people saying:

"Sturmtiger rocket doesn't collide with terrain anymore" -> Bullshit

So which is true? No idea.

IS2 is RNG cannon, if it goes up to pershing level then we could probably break that myth.



The rak also has .04 accuracy at 50 range whereas other AT guns have .04 at 60 range thus more accuracy than the rak at 50 range.


And that ^
28 Nov 2018, 03:28 AM
#26
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2018, 02:50 AMzerocoh

ATG is not late, they are cheap and captain can speed it up. Also, if you are fighting brumms with ATGs you are doing it wrong.


Yep. But like I said, I often see USF players get ATGs pretty late.

The Brummbar comment was about bleeding USF of manpower.
28 Nov 2018, 03:51 AM
#27
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



The rak has the same accuracy now as others yes, but does it still suffer from collision issues? And checking the box in the mod tools that says "collides with terrain" as "False" doesn't prevent bugs etc. It's like some people saying:


The rak also has .04 accuracy at 50 range whereas other AT guns have .04 at 60 range thus more accuracy than the rak at 50 range.
28 Nov 2018, 04:28 AM
#28
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279



The rak also has .04 accuracy at 50 range whereas other AT guns have .04 at 60 range thus more accuracy than the rak at 50 range.

Must be the terrain thing then because it definitely hits the ground a fair amount. Or at least it feels like it...
28 Nov 2018, 04:47 AM
#29
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2


Must be the terrain thing then because it definitely hits the ground a fair amount. Or at least it feels like it...

All AT guns can hit the ground. It's collisions with other objects (which is relatively uncommon) that can still happen.
28 Nov 2018, 05:02 AM
#30
avatar of zerocoh

Posts: 930

Projectiles only hit objects when you miss, otherwise it will hit the target regardless of what happens.
28 Nov 2018, 05:13 AM
#31
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


All AT guns can hit the ground. It's collisions with other objects (which is relatively uncommon) that can still happen.


Iirc the rak has a lower firing point making it more likely to hit the ground (on account of being closer to it) out of the barrel. Could also be because it's closer to the frey so it feels even more important to hit and a miss can mean it wiping idk.
28 Nov 2018, 06:59 AM
#32
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 2358

It´s not bad.

/Thread.


+1
28 Nov 2018, 07:35 AM
#33
28 Nov 2018, 12:00 PM
#34
avatar of MakiesKurisu

Posts: 130

Good AT in USF and would be op in any other faction. Because USF always starve for muni.
28 Nov 2018, 16:13 PM
#35
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2018, 02:50 AMzerocoh

you really don't need LT, you can hold out until shermans or just get BARs and focus down squads, pack howie will pay itself very fast, stuart is also okay if the opponent is spread out.
AAHT will die pretty easy to good raketen players not worth the 60 fuel IMO, not to mention the thing is awful at killing making your opponent float tons of manpower.



ATG is not late, they are cheap and captain can speed it up. Also, if you are fighting brumms with ATGs you are doing it wrong.



After the "Buff Ostwind" thread I tried the AAHT again, just to see if it was as good as people were claiming. Your comments were exactly my experience, other than to say that it doesn't take a "good" raketen player to kill it, just someone who can cloak and move into about 40 range before firing the first shot (unless that is what you mean by a "good" raketen player). The last time I tried one, I lost it to Ullumulu.

+1 on all your other comments. If I think I'm going to be facing a Brum, I try to get a Jackson as soon as possible because anything else bleeds manpower.
28 Nov 2018, 16:14 PM
#36
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1947


All AT guns can hit the ground. It's collisions with other objects (which is relatively uncommon) that can still happen.


Wasn't this eliminated for the raketen in one of the previous patches?
28 Nov 2018, 16:22 PM
#37
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

As long as you have some munis to sink into it, it is the best AT gun. Not only it has ability that increases the pen, but it also is the only movable AT gun to have up to 70 range. Of course you need another ability to increase the range from standard 60, but the possibility itself is a huge thing nonetheless.
28 Nov 2018, 19:23 PM
#38
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2018, 16:14 PMGrumpy


Wasn't this eliminated for the raketen in one of the previous patches?


No it wasn't, like every single time balance team announced that they have fixed collision for one or the other projectile. Raketen still beating to that that piece of dirt like there's no tomorrow.

Put in that raketen has way lower accuracy at its max range than any at gun at the same range, that its firing from a much lower barrel, closer to the ground...and you get the results the raketen is famous for.

At this point i don't believe that patches will be able to fix any projectile collision.
28 Nov 2018, 20:15 PM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Nov 2018, 16:13 PMGrumpy

last time I tried one, I lost it to Ullumulu.

I find this part most hilarious, considering the fact that the very same Ullumulu was claiming that raketten always dies to it and is unable to kill it.
29 Nov 2018, 04:38 AM
#40
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1




It’s also only 270 mp If I remember correctly so it’s very good. We will likely see a lot of it in the future USF tech changes


Yeah it's 270. I think it should maybe be 300 because of what you said here. It will be very spammable in the new tech layout

And maybe increase the cost of AP rounds to 45 Muni, return it to 30 at vet 2 or 3. Doubling up on those early on can delete all of Ostheer t3 very easily.
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