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russian armor

Stug

24 Nov 2018, 14:07 PM
#1
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 303

While i certainly like this unit being a glass kannon, which can trade effectivly due to ist low cost, i still think it might need a nittle adjustment.

I feel like this unit doesnt add up when fighting bigger armor, IS2/ISU. espcially against an ISU the lack of range and penetration and possibility to flank makes the stug a bit akward to use. I would suggest a small penetration buff for the stug to compensate.


What bothers me the most however is the awkward vet1 ability, it takes so long to pull of while doing less dmg then a regular shot. Most of the times ist just better to shoot a regular shot and pray for Damage then this. Either reduce the aim time, or replace it with a supression ability that could function similar to
the USA paratrooper one



24 Nov 2018, 15:02 PM
#2
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2301 | Subs: 4

The ISU is like 3x the price....
24 Nov 2018, 15:33 PM
#3
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 303

It has more range while also damaging infantry, 2-3 stugs should be have Kind of a Chance, it woudnt Change the dps of the stug just baalnce of some RNG bounces. In order to dive ISU with stugs you have to face paks cons etc so ist not gonna be easy anway. But it would help punish unsupported ISU a bit more.

Just for the sake of diversity one doesnt have to go ele every game to counter isu

EDit : Im only asking for a slight pen buff having isu bounce half of my shots is frustating
24 Nov 2018, 16:22 PM
#4
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

Stug = meant to counter medium tanks.
Panther= meant to counter heavy tanks.

/thread
24 Nov 2018, 17:46 PM
#5
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

It has more range while also damaging infantry, 2-3 stugs should be have Kind of a Chance


They definitely have that.

Two StuGs easily outdamage one ISU-152, so the outcome is down the mercy of the penetration rolls. If the StuGs can fight close up then they've got an edge.
24 Nov 2018, 18:20 PM
#6
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 4474

It has more range while also damaging infantry, 2-3 stugs should be have Kind of a Chance, it woudnt Change the dps of the stug just baalnce of some RNG bounces. In order to dive ISU with stugs you have to face paks cons etc so ist not gonna be easy anway. But it would help punish unsupported ISU a bit more.

Just for the sake of diversity one doesnt have to go ele every game to counter isu

EDit : Im only asking for a slight pen buff having isu bounce half of my shots is frustating
stug is anti medium and still does the job vs heavy, they just nerfed it
24 Nov 2018, 19:32 PM
#7
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

One thing really huts is the removed reload-buff in hull-down. I am for giving it back, only for StuG.
24 Nov 2018, 19:44 PM
#8
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4099 | Subs: 3

Axis TDs have lower pen than allied ones, but they also shoot at mostly lower armored targets. This works fine till allies deploy something that actually has very strong armor by comparison like the IS2. Turns TDs into RNGfests whether they work or not. Poor design but I've brought this up many times and they don't seem keen on fixing it.
24 Nov 2018, 22:22 PM
#9
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Imagine someone was complaining that their SU76 wasn't penetrating Jagdtiger effectively. Would you agree that the SU76 needs a penetration buff, or would you tell them to get an SU85 or T34/85 and strafe?

The StuG is fine; it's just not the solution for ISU152.
25 Nov 2018, 01:31 AM
#10
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290

While i certainly like this unit being a glass kannon, which can trade effectivly due to ist low cost, i still think it might need a nittle adjustment.

I feel like this unit doesnt add up when fighting bigger armor, IS2/ISU. espcially against an ISU the lack of range and penetration and possibility to flank makes the stug a bit akward to use. I would suggest a small penetration buff for the stug to compensate.


What bothers me the most however is the awkward vet1 ability, it takes so long to pull of while doing less dmg then a regular shot. Most of the times ist just better to shoot a regular shot and pray for Damage then this. Either reduce the aim time, or replace it with a supression ability that could function similar to
the USA paratrooper one


The nerf that it doesn't stun anymore is the problem, making a vehicle move little bit slower and having very slow shooting time made that ability almost useless in most situations.
25 Nov 2018, 12:16 PM
#11
avatar of adamírcz

Posts: 929

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2018, 01:31 AMThamor


The nerf that it doesn't stun anymore is the problem, making a vehicle move little bit slower and having very slow shooting time made that ability almost useless in most situations.


Its good enough to pretty much guarentee that a hit vehicle will not win against any tank in its category + the lowered speed can still be quite dangerous if there are other ATs nearby
The old stun was a completely unacceptable mechanic, that had no place in the game and had to go
25 Nov 2018, 16:21 PM
#12
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3164 | Subs: 7

Stug = meant to counter medium tanks.
Panther= meant to counter heavy tanks.
/thread


I don't really like this argument. It's true, but it's bad design. This means Axis not only have to spend resources on one of the most expensive stock tanks in the game, but they also have pay for transition cost. They might need a Stug to survive the mid game, then have to get the Panther on top of it. It's the same for the Jagdpanzer IV, although that one is better late game because 60 range. The Allies can fight much more cost efficient because their TDs can fight every single type of tank. They make one to keep the mediums at bay, but then do not have to spend anything extra when the enemy switches to heavier tanks. This gives Allies a big advantage.

IMO tank destroyers should get high accuracy, good pen but mediocre ROF so they can reliably keep heavy tanks and heavy TDs away while not being very good against mediums.
25 Nov 2018, 16:23 PM
#13
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 3318 | Subs: 1

3 Stugs do have a chance against an ISU. You're just better off using p4s or a panther.

If you think the weakest assault gun in the game should be able to reliably deal with one of the strongest assault guns, you're doing CoH wrong.
25 Nov 2018, 16:24 PM
#14
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

Maybe StuG with 55 instead of 50 range? Then it becomes 65 in hull-down?

Still less range than Firefly, SU67/85 and Jackson, but better than current. In hull-down it becomes a real Benefit again, because of outranging a little bit. PaKs and ISU152 is still the counter.
25 Nov 2018, 21:07 PM
#15
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

Part of the problem is the vet bonuses the units get as I described in another thread. Allot of axis vehicles get an armor bonus, which is not only nullified but going go into negative from the penetration and accuracy bonuses allied TDs get.

The hole penetration system is becoming irrelevant and it should be look at.
25 Nov 2018, 21:25 PM
#16
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post24 Nov 2018, 15:02 PMTobis
The ISU is like 3x the price....

What's your point? Cost is literally meaningless because resources are infinite.
25 Nov 2018, 22:32 PM
#17
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8


What's your point? Cost is literally meaningless because resources are infinite.

Not sure if serious or snippy towards that one noob some time ago who tried to use the argument on how all allied infantry are op, ignoring the costs, because resources are infinite.
25 Nov 2018, 22:50 PM
#18
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post25 Nov 2018, 22:32 PMKatitof

Not sure if serious or snippy towards that one noob some time ago who tried to use the argument on how all allied infantry are op, ignoring the costs, because resources are infinite.


He is memeing~
26 Nov 2018, 10:20 AM
#19
avatar of Thamor

Posts: 290



Its good enough to pretty much guarentee that a hit vehicle will not win against any tank in its category + the lowered speed can still be quite dangerous if there are other ATs nearby
The old stun was a completely unacceptable mechanic, that had no place in the game and had to go


There is still stun mechanic anyways to vehicles like ISU shots, Firefly rockets...I do agree that stun in a spammable stug was very powerful. With the nerf how it works, it should shoot much faster if u use the ability.
26 Nov 2018, 11:09 AM
#20
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Nov 2018, 10:20 AMThamor

it should shoot much faster if u use the ability.


It is because of the double reload, first the normal weapon interrupts. Then a new reload for the ability.

But still, I am for buff its range from 50 to 55. So it has more space versus mediums, still less range as allii tank-destroyer and in hull-down it becomes useful again.
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