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russian armor

120mm Mortars Are too relaint on RNG

8 Nov 2018, 20:14 PM
#1
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 26

Am I the only person in here who thinks that this mortar is ridiculously good? I mean seriously. You set it up and have a steady manpower bleed on your opponent and shut down all defensive players. What's worse is that normally you get shelled by a mortar so you move. but with this one that's not possible. One shell can easily wipe an entire squad. Double mortar is even worse. MG? Ivan gives me 10 seconds and no MG. Rly I mean, probably this is more of an L2P issue but if so can someone inform me how to deal with this? Especially on small maps.
PS this is for 1v1. I played as OKW and used Overwatch.
8 Nov 2018, 20:19 PM
#2
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 26

BTW I tried countering with walking Stuka which did really well but he got himself a tank by that time and I was toast.
8 Nov 2018, 20:42 PM
#3
avatar of Tactical Imouto

Posts: 95

Not sure why u whine about them being too OP but in the title saying theyre too reliant on RNG meaning theyre bad?
8 Nov 2018, 23:19 PM
#4
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 182

Hard to say "what you can do different" without knowing what specifically happened.

When I'm being shelled by indirect, a common thing I do is constantly move units away from where they were (this means you have to give up "good" spots quite often to setup somewhere else).

Also, counter the indirect with an ability or unit that punishes it. Early on -- luchs dive or infantry flank. Later, as you mentioned, Stuka (but obviously you should be ready for a tank -- so rak + mine or double rak).

If you find it's a consistent issue -- try using the unit in question, and see how you get countered.

9 Nov 2018, 01:20 AM
#5
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 1208 | Subs: 1

Isn't it only slightly more likely to wipe on a direct hit (because of aoe) but less likley to actually hit (scatter) and hit less frequently (ROF)?

Someone mind posting stats as to how it compares with the 82mm?
Tbh I'd like to see it get the big boomer treatment: return it to 120 damage but adjust the profile so it's no more Directly lethal than any other mortar YET widen the area it does damage.

Basicly it's hits a wider damage and is more effective vs structures but no more LETHAL against infantry than a normal mortar. It'll damage further but no more likely to wipe.
9 Nov 2018, 02:42 AM
#6
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 151

Not sure why u whine about them being too OP but in the title saying theyre too reliant on RNG meaning theyre bad?


He never used the exact "too OP" words. Interesting missunderstanding. But i dont know OP.
And check your own posts first. I mean you know very well that whine situation, do you?

OP: 120mm mortars are really good, they are meant to be, they are doctrinal and give SU an edge on indirect fire to force a breakthrough. OST tend to rely a lot on static support units and this mortar counters them real hard. They are not OP and recently got nerfed, still they are good because they are needed that way.
To deal with them there might be better advices, if you suspect the enemy is going for 120mm mortars dont train many static troops, and tend to move frequently. When you reach tanks that problem will diminish a bit. Do not concentrate around chokepoints with mortars on the other side. Maybe you'll loose a really needed point but its worse to insist and loose models for free.
9 Nov 2018, 04:14 AM
#7
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 242

Isn't it only slightly more likely to wipe on a direct hit (because of aoe) but less likley to actually hit (scatter) and hit less frequently (ROF)?


Yeah, its near AOE distance is only 0.5 units more than the regular mortar. The outer radius is what's much larger (6 for heavy vs. 4 for stock) and that's obviously where it does less damage. If I'm remembering correctly, it was one of the first AOE units to get the reliable damage buff/kill radius nerf that has been applied to a bunch of other units (ISU, Brum, etc.). So this complaint seems a little outdated

9 Nov 2018, 09:28 AM
#8
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 3179 | Subs: 1

pm-82_41
AOE
AOE Radius 4
Distance near 1
Distance mid 2
Distance far 3
Damage near 68
Damage mid 40
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 0

Scatter
Scatter angle 8
Distance offset 0
Distance ratio 0.1
Distance max 8

hm-120_38
AOE
AOE Radius 6
Distance near 1.5
Distance mid 3
Distance far 4.5
Damage near 68
Damage mid 40
Damage far 20
80 DMG distance 0

Scatter
Scatter angle 10
Distance offset 0
Distance ratio 0.1
Distance max 10
9 Nov 2018, 12:37 PM
#9
avatar of Felinewolfie

Posts: 509 | Subs: 4


It does exact same damage as a regular mortar, just with a bigger AOE
and worse scatter. Yea, your complaint is outdated.

Nice on the stats, Vipper!
9 Nov 2018, 15:54 PM
#10
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 26

Okay thanks, guess it is an L2p issue then. It just sucks to try to play defensively and get countered hard by a single unit that does not require any micro.

9 Nov 2018, 16:12 PM
#11
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 182

Could always try to post a replay and ask for specific input. People gave some suggestions, but it's hard to provide any meaningful feedback without knowing what actually happened.
9 Nov 2018, 16:52 PM
#12
avatar of jajajajaja

Posts: 7

Cannot read the stats really, but does that not say it does at far range the same damage the stock mortar does at midrange?

But beyond that.

The biggest "problem" with the unit is how it never dies.
It just goes down to 1 crewmember even on a full stuka hit.

That way you can simply put it in your base and it is almost impossible to kill.
And since you do not need to recrew it, there is almost no manpower bleed from it.

Second issue is the bigger range compared to the stock mortar.
On small maps like Faymonville, it almost covers the full map even if you just put it in your base.


Combine the two and it is really hard to deal with on those maps.
While at the same tome there is no micro required to make it work.
9 Nov 2018, 16:59 PM
#13
avatar of distrofio

Posts: 151

...
The biggest "problem" with the unit is how it never dies.
It just goes down to 1 crewmember even on a full stuka hit.

It got nerfed recently to -1 crewmember, so now its the same as any other mortar

...
Second issue is the bigger range compared to the stock mortar.
On small maps like Faymonville, it almost covers the full map even if you just put it in your base.
...

Mortars take quite a while to deal that amount of damage, you could have changed of strategy many times, if you didnt its you own fault. You just dont win because "you want to". You adapt to the other strong aspects to find a weak spot and win.
9 Nov 2018, 16:59 PM
#14
avatar of Michalszym

Posts: 26

I don't know how to post replays
9 Nov 2018, 17:23 PM
#15
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 182

I don't know how to post replays


There's a section next to guides on the top ribbon that says replays that has an upload form, but also this link: https://www.coh2.org/replay/upload

You can then link the URL, using this guide: https://www.coh2.org/topic/34356/welcome-to-the-replay-reviews

@jajajajaja

The range is indeed longer, but remember that it also takes a lot longer to setup, shoot, and all that. If you make it displace, you basically bought yourself a long reprieve. It also takes longer to shoot the flare, so it's utility is worse.

Honestly, there are ways to counter it, the big one is to make it a pain in the ass to use on the opponent's side by having to constantly move it. Punish what they're doing to make them stop it.
9 Nov 2018, 17:45 PM
#16
avatar of jajajajaja

Posts: 7

It got nerfed recently to -1 crewmember, so now its the same as any other mortar


Just tried that with cheat mod.
3 man 120mm Mortar goes down to 1 man on full stuka hit.
Need another one to decrew it.

Thas definately not the same "as any other mortar". ;-)

The range is indeed longer, but remember that it also takes a lot longer to setup, shoot, and all that. If you make it displace, you basically bought yourself a long reprieve.


Why would you ever move it on Faymonville?
You just put it in your base where you can reinforce it.


Not saying there is no counter.
My current counter is to just spam volks and blob.

It is juts a stupid counter to a stupid unit, but it works.
Lame gameplay though.
9 Nov 2018, 17:50 PM
#17
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 182

At that range the accuracy is going to be terrible.

Also, he'd move it because you'd be hitting it otherwise. ISG, stuka, your own mortar, etc.

But you already know this. I get that it's frustrating.

edit: "Spam volks and blob" oh so standard OKW strats eh? Kappa
9 Nov 2018, 17:57 PM
#18
avatar of jajajajaja

Posts: 7

Also, he'd move it because you'd be hitting it otherwise. ISG, stuka, your own mortar, etc.


Not sure what you are trying to say.
Your ISG or mortar gets destroyed by the mortar, while the mortar just reinforces.

If you set a single stuka on it, it will never die, just go down to one crewmember.
So you are wasting an expensive vehicle, while the mortar never stops working.

You will never want to move the mortar in a situation like that.


Both options are a sure way to lose in that situation.

9 Nov 2018, 18:03 PM
#19
avatar of jajajajaja

Posts: 7

edit: "Spam volks and blob" oh so standard OKW strats eh? Kappa


As OKW there is not much else you can build in a situation like that.

ISG and mgs get hard countered by the mortar.
Obers and falls will make the bleed even worse.

So that leaves only volks.
What else could you buy?

Guess if you are really good, you do not need to blob though ;-)
Unfortunately I am not that good...
9 Nov 2018, 20:13 PM
#20
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 182

I was being sarcastic dude, hence the 'Kappa'.
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