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russian armor

Volks are disgustingly good, need toning down.

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22 Oct 2018, 23:21 PM
#61
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

How does the slightly less accuracy and damage translate to DPS considering the extra model?

There's no slighly less accuracy or less damage, reworked cons have the best accuracy of bolt action rifles (unless i remember section one wrong).

0.757 to 0.556, is better than any bolt action rifle
12 damage is the same as volks

When vet 2-3 RA and accuracy bonuses kicks in, unupgraded volks of any veterancy have no chance
22 Oct 2018, 23:26 PM
#62
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post22 Oct 2018, 23:04 PMKirrik
Volks always win long range against Cons. And if Cons close range against Volks they obviously lose too due to losing models on close up. Heck even if they did beat them STG upgrade makes Cons redundant as they simply lose in every situation, which is why everyone goes Penals vs OKW anyway.


False and false, cons fight even better at longer range due to better accuracy, closing in is nonsensical and the first thing to do is take cover to max out durability.

Cons were meta in GCS2 with 520 units built compared to only 260 penal battallions.
22 Oct 2018, 23:33 PM
#63
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

My dps question was actually about the stats I replied under. Grens and volks, the one where volks have slightly less accuracy and less damage but have an extra model... That one...

And again, upgraded volks don't matter. If you are seeing vet 2/3 cons and don't have an army of stg volks you are asking to lose. If you see ANY cons and don't have STGs you are not playing you are trolling. Cons only have that vet because without it they have nothing at all, and even then, if they have to replace a cons squad they are way on the back foot where replacing a volks squad can be brought mostly up to snuff with a simple munitions expenditure.

You can hardly talk about unuograded volks vs vetted cons as if that is realistically even a scenario when STGs come long before vet 3 cons do..
22 Oct 2018, 23:38 PM
#64
avatar of Kirrik

Posts: 573



False and false, cons fight even better at longer range due to better accuracy, closing in is nonsensical and the first thing to do is take cover to max out durability.

Cons were meta in GCS2 with 520 units built compared to only 260 penal battallions.


Stop bringing up GCS its irrelevant and was mostly played against Ost light vehicles spam. Cons literally have twice less DPS at long range. Stop lying, especially if said lies are flat out stupid
22 Oct 2018, 23:38 PM
#65
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

My dps question was actually about the stats I replied under. Grens and volks, the one where volks have slightly less accuracy and less damage but have an extra model... That one...

And again, upgraded volks don't matter. If you are seeing vet 2/3 cons and don't have an army of stg volks you are asking to lose. If you see ANY cons and don't have STGs you are not playing you are trolling. Cons only have that vet because without it they have nothing at all, and even then, if they have to replace a cons squad they are way on the back foot where replacing a volks squad can be brought mostly up to snuff with a simple munitions expenditure.

You can hardly talk about unuograded volks vs vetted cons as if that is realistically even a scenario when STGs come long before vet 3 cons do..

The difference is minimal, especially because volks have a different starting durability.
Grenadiers starts scaling far better with their much better veterancy.

It matters to the discussion, since some people are saying that unupgraded volks win over cons
22 Oct 2018, 23:46 PM
#66
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279


The difference is minimal, especially because volks have a different starting durability.
Grenadiers starts scaling far better with their much better veterancy.

It matters to the discussion, since some people are saying that unupgraded volks win over cons


If dps is comparable I think that's a massive problem given the greater durability.

Also Kar volks only matters for a few minutes before the first truck is placed, should that be med truck (which is plenty viable since the flak trak buff) that is rapid. Then you have fully kitted out volks. There will be not heavily vetted cons at this time. And up until that point the cons will have been being bullied by volks and sturms. Cons are not a unit that is viable against okw.
23 Oct 2018, 00:04 AM
#67
avatar of Tobis
Senior Strategist Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2307 | Subs: 4



Grenadiers
Damage per shot: 16
Accuracy: 0.65/0.52

Volks
Damage per shot: 12
Accuracy: 0.62/0.55

Get your facts straight

Where did you get these numbers?

Grens:
Accuracy: .748 : .661 : .598

Volks:
Accuracy: .748 : .713 : .679

Cons:
Accuracy: .757 : .660 : .557

Literally everything you are typing is lies and misinformation.
23 Oct 2018, 00:16 AM
#68
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2018, 00:04 AMTobis

Where did you get these numbers?

...

Literally everything you are typing is lies and misinformation.

COH2 balance forums in a nutshell :thumbsup:
23 Oct 2018, 00:44 AM
#69
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2018, 00:04 AMTobis

Where did you get these numbers?

Literally everything you are typing is lies and misinformation.


Don't think I don't see you rounding up on cons there Kappa

But I did confirm Tobis' stats are correct.

More importantly though you guys also havn't even brought up RA, which happens to be quite important.

Also grens = cons at vet 0 in long range. If you close distance you basically lose the engagement. Volks do tend to roll over cons at all stages till/if PPSHs.

23 Oct 2018, 00:45 AM
#70
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

Just so people stop making up numbers and throwing out irrelevant stats:

https://coh2db.com/stats/

Volks squad DPS at max range: 5 (models) x 1.807 (DPS/model) = 9.035 (DPS)

Cons squad DPS at max range: 6 x 1.06 = 6.36

Volks effective durability: 5 (models) / 1.0 (RA) = 5 (effective models worth of durability)

Cons effective durability: 6 / 1.09 = ~5.5

Volks DPS / Cons DPS: 9.035 / 6.36 = 1.42 = 142%

Cons durability / Volks durability: 5.5 / 5 = 1.1 = 110%

Volks have 42% more dps than cons at max range than cons. Cons are only 10% more durable than volks.

23 Oct 2018, 00:47 AM
#71
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

On the assumption that each squad retreats at 1 model:

Volks effective durability = 4 / 1 = 4

Cons effective durability = 5 / 1.09 = 4.59

Cons effective durability / volks effective durability = ~1.15 = ~115%
23 Oct 2018, 05:48 AM
#72
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2018, 00:04 AMTobis

Where did you get these numbers?

Grens:
Accuracy: .748 : .661 : .598

Volks:
Accuracy: .748 : .713 : .679

Cons:
Accuracy: .757 : .660 : .557

Literally everything you are typing is lies and misinformation.


Official changelog, go page by page and use the search function.
23 Oct 2018, 06:11 AM
#73
avatar of jagd wölfe

Posts: 1660

Just so people stop making up numbers and throwing out irrelevant stats:

https://coh2db.com/stats/

Volks squad DPS at max range: 5 (models) x 1.807 (DPS/model) = 9.035 (DPS)

Cons squad DPS at max range: 6 x 1.06 = 6.36

Volks effective durability: 5 (models) / 1.0 (RA) = 5 (effective models worth of durability)

Cons effective durability: 6 / 1.09 = ~5.5

Volks DPS / Cons DPS: 9.035 / 6.36 = 1.42 = 142%

Cons durability / Volks durability: 5.5 / 5 = 1.1 = 110%

Volks have 42% more dps than cons at max range than cons. Cons are only 10% more durable than volks.


So those values have been changed without even mentioning in the OFFICIAL changelog ?

Edit: So i'm not crazy
https://www.coh2.org/topic/6598/coh-2-dps-spreadsheet

You would expect an old source to be relevant if no change is showed on official game changelog.
Looks like a ghost buff.

My bad
23 Oct 2018, 07:03 AM
#74
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Just so people stop making up numbers and throwing out irrelevant stats:

https://coh2db.com/stats/

Volks squad DPS at max range: 5 (models) x 1.807 (DPS/model) = 9.035 (DPS)

Cons squad DPS at max range: 6 x 1.06 = 6.36

Volks effective durability: 5 (models) / 1.0 (RA) = 5 (effective models worth of durability)

Cons effective durability: 6 / 1.09 = ~5.5

Volks DPS / Cons DPS: 9.035 / 6.36 = 1.42 = 142%

Cons durability / Volks durability: 5.5 / 5 = 1.1 = 110%

Volks have 42% more dps than cons at max range than cons. Cons are only 10% more durable than volks.


The actual DPS of VG should be lower then the theoretical. The reason is overkill, VG need to do 84 damage to kill a model so there actual DPS should be around 5% less (around 8.605)
23 Oct 2018, 07:48 AM
#75
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1002 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post23 Oct 2018, 07:03 AMVipper

The actual DPS of VG should be lower then the theoretical. The reason is overkill, VG need to do 84 damage to kill a model so there actual DPS should be around 5% less (around 8.605)

My post was getting long as is. With users not even bothering to find correct stats before running around yelling on balance forums, I figured laying it out simply was best so that they would stop spreading misinformation and tearing down correctly justified arguments. Beyond that, the point was to concretely lay out the comparison between cons and volks with regards to raw stats. Given that both of these units do 12 damage per shot and therefore have 5% less effective DPS, the effect is a net neutral and the ratios betweeen their damage remained the same, meaning I found no real reason to mention it.
23 Oct 2018, 08:29 AM
#76
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1



Opinions of top 300's might aswell be top 5k



Nah
23 Oct 2018, 08:40 AM
#77
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


Bullshit, volks rifle has 12 damage and less accuracy than grens rifles.

Cons straight up win and has been proved multiple times

I've said DPS.
Not damage.
As in SQUAD dps, sice the squad was the context of the post(that line is for V so we won't get another semantics war here).
However, since you tried, I'll give you a medal
23 Oct 2018, 09:08 AM
#78
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

They are too cheap, too spammble, consistent damage, they throw those incendiary grenades like pro baseball players, plus they make the entire garrison/cover play style look like a joke and toward mid-late game are like terminators. Either do something about the STG upgrade/flame nade or make them more expensive to reinforce and call it a day.


Actually, the thing is that Axis mainline infantry is strong early game, while Allied mainline infantry is weak early game. In the mid-late game, Allied infantry is stronger, while Axis infantry is a little bit weaker, but a thing worth noting is this : Axis infantry doesn't drop weapons upon death/wipe (Volks actually), while Allied infantry does drop weapons upon death/wipe. Which means that Volks are fine. Especially in the early game, supported from Stumpioneers.

Gameplay advice : Use cover, deny cover with nades, and in case that he blobs, blob yourself and make a blob showdown. It's that simple. Bring Commandos, Shock Troops, Paras, Rangers, bring Shermans, T-70s, whatever you can. He blobs, you blob. It's an eye for an eye.
23 Oct 2018, 09:37 AM
#79
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

Drop 25 fu on denying cover knowing full well volks can do it better for no tech cost just adds insult to injury.
23 Oct 2018, 13:28 PM
#80
avatar of NorthWestFresh

Posts: 317

Balance is really really bad once agian..... Like its not even close comparing standard mainstream infantry between factions I cant believe we got a five year anniversery and standard infantry doesn't even have a semblance of balance. I dunno what y'all community balance helpers did but ...... Come ON!!!! I dont know why you guys messed with standard infantry anyway you just make it worse when I played last about and a half ago infantry was pretty good at least standard infantry I come back and its a complete joke..... AGAIN!
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