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russian armor

How to counter heavy OKW blobs (or blobs in general)

10 Oct 2018, 19:15 PM
#1
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

Here you can watch a match that I played today with my mate and ... I just don't get how this could happend. I mean yea ... we did some mistakes too but they lost their Luchs. And the scene where basically my whole army got slaughtered by a single STG 44 blob I just kinda felt scammed. So I am asking you:

- What were my/our main mistakes
- How to counter Blobs(especially OKW blobs since I now lost 2 games in a row to OKW blobs)
10 Oct 2018, 19:35 PM
#2
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Focus fire.

Use HMGS to cover your front line, not be the front line.

That's my general pre-game-analysis advice.
10 Oct 2018, 19:41 PM
#3
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

I feel your pain if you were playing as USF/UKF.

As USSR I just hold out for a katyusha and pray they don't dive it.
10 Oct 2018, 19:49 PM
#4
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 19:41 PMGrim
I feel your pain if you were playing as USF/UKF.

As USSR I just hold out for a katyusha and pray they don't dive it.


Thats more or less what I did do

Focus fire.

Use HMGS to cover your front line, not be the front line.

That's my general pre-game-analysis advice.


My HMGs were covering the front line with mines in front of them or a Cons squad ... at least most of the time
10 Oct 2018, 19:58 PM
#5
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Cons? Against OKW and stg volks? So soviets then.

Unless you're massing PPSH that's a losing fight. Try penals and/or guards. Generally speaking cons are for ostheer using grens.

Mines unfortunately aren't great vs blobs. They can protect flanks, but since they are artificially capped at only hurting 2 models blobs can just tromp right through them with minimal losses.

And unfortunately further, maxims were rather over nerfed since no one could agree on how to balance them.

But that said ill try to watch the replay this evening to see if anything else stands out.
10 Oct 2018, 21:06 PM
#6
avatar of mr.matrix300

Posts: 518


But that said ill try to watch the replay this evening to see if anything else stands out.


Thanks. It is not like I do not know any mistakes at all (f.e. wasting AT nades in order to bring Pz 4s HP down but then realizing, that my mate has no tank or somtimes some blobbing) but I just don't know how we could end up in that situation exactly.
10 Oct 2018, 22:07 PM
#7
avatar of Grim

Posts: 1093

Now I admit to being a 3v3/4v4 scrub. I love the big team games modes so my experiences differ from 1v1 and to a lesser extent 2v2.

In one of my more recent games, I was in a 4v4 as USF with 3 UKF teammates vs 4 Ost players.

We literally got blobbed to death my panzergrenadiers....it was bizarre. We were winning for a good portion of the game when I think the enemy realised we struggled agianst massed infantry.

Our hmgs were always focused by werfers then a blob of Pzgrens backed by brumbars moved in.

If we'd had one USSR teammate it would have been a different game with one or two katyusha.

It just felt really bizarre to hit a brick wall against such a simple tactic.

Any armour was deleted in the first volley by the PzGrens and any attempts to counter with infantry were met with brumbars with werfer fire if we started to deal too much damage.

Anyway, I know you were talking about 2v2 and OKW originally so I'll stop now before everyone thinks I'm TOTALLY incompetent.

#notsalty
11 Oct 2018, 04:02 AM
#8
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

If you're playing USSR, go Shock Troops so that you can go up close and personal, and support them with T-70s.

If you're playing USF, go Rangers or Paratroopers. You can also use an AAHT to support your troops, M8 Greyhound with the canister shot and regular M4 Sherman with loaded HE rounds. Also, don't forget that Paratroopers from Recon Support company have the "Covering Fire" ability if you have upgraded them with the M1919 LMG.
11 Oct 2018, 04:24 AM
#9
avatar of cochosgo

Posts: 301

Shock troops are useless against OKW, they can't close up and they get outraded by volks with stgs.

You need to use a defense in depth against blobs. That means, layered green cover alternatives for you to fall back, if possible, add wire to close up aproachs or to deny them cover. Try to use red cover zones to increase the supression on your mgs, but mostly rely on focusing down key squads until they have to break from the engagement.

One key element blobs can exploit is the line of sight, as if you end up fighting them at medium close range it will be mostly a guaranteed loss on your side. Engage them at the maximum range posible and use vision tools to locate them. You won't be able to burst them down so you have to harass them for as long as you can.

Dont trust allied machineguns. Most of the time they can't supress (never pin) more than 2 squads. OKW has the tools to run them over, as a single of their units can push them off and break your whole plan. Key word with mgs is sustained fire as allied mgs favor damage over supression, so each second he has his squads under fire means more damage. That's why you have to build layers of cover for your units to soak damage from the blob while forcing it to stay inside the arc of your mg. If posible, have a spare CQC unit guarding your mg from behind.

If they get a stuka they just surrender the game, as you already lost and it wont be much until they shred everything you have.
11 Oct 2018, 06:13 AM
#10
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

funny thing is: allies have better blobb possibilty. which tank fear a volk blobb? not one when right used. They will retreat after lose many models.

but ever seen allie blobb with zook, ptrs and other crap which cann be spammed on cheap infantery (and hide behind mine scanner or a lmg symbol)

and can deal with all targets? and u havent such great AI profile on ur axis tanks. so u struggle much more than allie players vs blobb...because they counter easy ur armor and u have less potent possibiltys vs them.

halftrack which can pin and move? > play allies
tanks whith great AI profile? > play allies
better anti blobb rocket launcher? > play allies
better blobbs? >play allies
11 Oct 2018, 06:57 AM
#11
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

So I am asking you:
- How to counter Blobs(especially OKW blobs since I now lost 2 games in a row to OKW blobs)


Get a USF teammate to outblob the OKW blob

Getting a fast ambulance or halftrack should help too, as OKW has no way to reinforce in the field. It'd be manpower attrition for both teams but your field presence should come out on top.


Mines unfortunately aren't great vs blobs. They can protect flanks, but since they are artificially capped at only hurting 2 models blobs can just tromp right through them with minimal losses.


Well yes and no, they can hurt only 2 models per squad. But if there's a blob, there's a good chance a mine will hurt multiple squads that are bundled together. They can usually kill up to 4 models if you're lucky.
11 Oct 2018, 07:33 AM
#12
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

Shock troops are useless against OKW, they can't close up and they get outraded by volks with stgs.

You need to use a defense in depth against blobs. That means, layered green cover alternatives for you to fall back, if possible, add wire to close up aproachs or to deny them cover. Try to use red cover zones to increase the supression on your mgs, but mostly rely on focusing down key squads until they have to break from the engagement.

One key element blobs can exploit is the line of sight, as if you end up fighting them at medium close range it will be mostly a guaranteed loss on your side. Engage them at the maximum range posible and use vision tools to locate them. You won't be able to burst them down so you have to harass them for as long as you can.

Dont trust allied machineguns. Most of the time they can't supress (never pin) more than 2 squads. OKW has the tools to run them over, as a single of their units can push them off and break your whole plan. Key word with mgs is sustained fire as allied mgs favor damage over supression, so each second he has his squads under fire means more damage. That's why you have to build layers of cover for your units to soak damage from the blob while forcing it to stay inside the arc of your mg. If posible, have a spare CQC unit guarding your mg from behind.

If they get a stuka they just surrender the game, as you already lost and it wont be much until they shred everything you have.


6 man squad, 6 rapid firing weapons (faster ROF than the Thompson) and an armor value of 2.25, makes it perfect to slaughter an OKW blob.
11 Oct 2018, 07:44 AM
#13
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



6 man squad, 6 rapid firing weapons (faster ROF than the Thompson) and an armor value of 2.25, makes it perfect to slaughter an OKW blob.

1) Rapid fire doesn't matter, DPS does and PPSH have lower DPS then thompsons.
2) Armor is 1.5 for what? 3 years now? 4?
3) It is them who are actually slaughtered by OKW blob, specifically for the reason long range blobs rip apart all other CQC units - range and firepower advantage.
4) Shocks do not work, there is a reason no one uses them and why they are being buffed now, you didn't even knew their stats and talk about their usefulness in combat? That speaks how often you yourself have used them.
11 Oct 2018, 07:51 AM
#14
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2018, 07:44 AMKatitof

1) Rapid fire doesn't matter, DPS does and PPSH have lower DPS then thompsons.
2) Armor is 1.5 for what? 3 years now? 4?
3) It is them who are actually slaughtered by OKW blob, specifically for the reason long range blobs rip apart all other CQC units - range and firepower advantage.
4) Shocks do not work, there is a reason no one uses them and why they are being buffed now, you didn't even knew their stats and talk about their usefulness in combat? That speaks how often you yourself have used them.


I don't use them, my friend does. And the results are great. Other people might not use them, but my friend does, the same way that i use Rangers and they win fights in which they have numerical disadvantage. And Obersoldaten are supposed to be anti-infantry, but guess what! Paratroopers with covering fire don't give a single fuck about them. Covering fire and then Rifles walk over them.
11 Oct 2018, 08:12 AM
#15
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



I don't use them, my friend does. And the results are great. Other people might not use them, but my friend does, the same way that i use Rangers and they win fights in which they have numerical disadvantage. And Obersoldaten are supposed to be anti-infantry, but guess what! Paratroopers with covering fire don't give a single fuck about them. Covering fire and then Rifles walk over them.


I assume you mean Metal Tolis?
Anyway, at that rank, blobs of partisans will work great.

Shocks might win 2v1 in favorable situation, but they aren't going to counter any blobs, 3 mainline inf units with upgrades will rip them apart.
11 Oct 2018, 09:05 AM
#16
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 310

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2018, 08:12 AMKatitof


I assume you mean Metal Tolis?
Anyway, at that rank, blobs of partisans will work great.

Shocks might win 2v1 in favorable situation, but they aren't going to counter any blobs, 3 mainline inf units with upgrades will rip them apart.


Open combat, with negative cover for both blobs?
11 Oct 2018, 09:18 AM
#17
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post11 Oct 2018, 08:12 AMKatitof


I assume you mean Metal Tolis?
Anyway, at that rank, blobs of partisans will work great.

Shocks might win 2v1 in favorable situation, but they aren't going to counter any blobs, 3 mainline inf units with upgrades will rip them apart.

depends on the szenario. can the shocks flank around a corner, and will be in near combat? than they schredd the volks. (not that 1 schock would be enough for 3-4 volks)
11 Oct 2018, 11:35 AM
#18
avatar of Oziligath

Posts: 192

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2018, 22:07 PMGrim
Now I admit to being a 3v3/4v4 scrub. I love the big team games modes so my experiences differ from 1v1 and to a lesser extent 2v2.

In one of my more recent games, I was in a 4v4 as USF with 3 UKF teammates vs 4 Ost players.

We literally got blobbed to death my panzergrenadiers....it was bizarre. We were winning for a good portion of the game when I think the enemy realised we struggled agianst massed infantry.

Our hmgs were always focused by werfers then a blob of Pzgrens backed by brumbars moved in.

If we'd had one USSR teammate it would have been a different game with one or two katyusha.

It just felt really bizarre to hit a brick wall against such a simple tactic.

Any armour was deleted in the first volley by the PzGrens and any attempts to counter with infantry were met with brumbars with werfer fire if we started to deal too much damage.

Anyway, I know you were talking about 2v2 and OKW originally so I'll stop now before everyone thinks I'm TOTALLY incompetent.

#notsalty





LOL i think i havnt seen a panzergrenadier blob in a while ill be curious to see the replay.
11 Oct 2018, 11:42 AM
#19
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2243

schrecks are so inaccurate that they mostly hit to 50% at far range...and walking up to near or mid range ends in dead squad. only flanks works...but this works with every unit in game.

so schrecks are expansive and ineffective...thats why u dont see them often.

11 Oct 2018, 12:41 PM
#20
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

T0- Moscow Outskirts north.

T2- focused on getting fuel, instead of securing cutoff. Fighting with CE against SP, instead of using the cons or better, both.
A single SP lost like 10% HP and manage to 95% take down on a CE and 60% down a conscript squad.
Floating +140mp above the mp needed for your maxim. OKW at this poin has double the popcap than you.

T4- Basically no income early on.

T5: heavily investing on cons against OKW (4 cons + double upgrades) on open map. Not sure if you'll go PPSH or not.


T10: you killed their P2, but they were so much ahead that it didn't matter. At most, you reset, fuelwise, one of your opponets to your fuel level but the other OKW is still way ahead.
The red player was bad (forward mech HQ, floating 280 muni with 4 Volks and no STG) and you are still losing against him. Show you "how bad" Cons are for this kind of engagement (mode).

T12: i think u were concerned about the SP flanking and sweeping your mines that you decided to keep 1 of your 2 maxims on the left side. You needed BOTH maxims to hold against the Volk blob. You keep forgetting squads and losing them against that blob. Con + Zis.

You picked Guard motor. This means your 3 conscripts will keep been deadweight. A single vet 1 con, 2 vet 0 cons. You basically have no vet infantry squad 12 mins into the game and if you decide to get Guards, they will still take time to vet.

T15: Finally your opponent decides to upgrade all his 4 Volks at the same time (lol). He Stuka the house, wiped your maxim and blobs forward. You have no tools at this point to stop him. Lost your 120mm and another maxim (which u decided to retreat from left side, even knowing it will get wiped by 4 STG Volks + 2 SP.

Game is over at this point. At least against any opponent who plays seriously and decides to end the game.

Blobs didn't matter in this game. If you can't stop or punish a blob/concentration of forces coming into your position, don't feed them manpower and bleed because you think that you need to do something. Don't take losing fights.

T20: if your whole army is just 5 vet 0 conscripts, an AT gun, CE and a T3485 i will blob the hell out of you cause u don't have anything to stop it.
You spend your whole muni income rushing 4 cons against a PIV which can't be killed.

Did you watched the replay? Your opponents were toying with you. Even after losing a Sturmtiger, they were just floating 1K and 2K mp, 1K munition. Scavenge artillery with 1K munition kreygasm.

T31: KT at 10% HP after been dived by 3 tanks babyrage. No mark vehicle was seeing that day. Now i also remember that i practically haven't seen lolotovs been used. After losing your army for the "N"th time, you complain about blobs.

Game ends.

Summary:
-Don't build-focus on conscripts against OKW.
-Don't build more than 1/2 conscripts if you are not gonna pick a PPSH doctrine.
-If you are gonna spam maxims, i guess 2 conscripts are fine for AT nade. You would had been much better with 4 maxims rather than 5 cons. Still i wouldn't rely on maxims if micro is not your strength.
-NEVER float mp on the first 4mins of the game.
-Learn to play each map. Don't blindly focus on fuel. Fighting/securing cut off/strong garrison position is more important than solo capping.
-Blobbing/concentration force is a valid strategy as combined arms. SPREADING your army means you are gonna be punished when they "blitz" your position, if you don't have anything to punish the enemy with.
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