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Lieutenant builds for USF

30 Sep 2018, 00:00 AM
#1
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

I want to use the lieutenant's light vehicles more often but not having real AT or anything indirect makes it a real pain in the ass to play against static players or okw t3. The only strategy with LT that seems to work for me is going recon support for the AT gun, but then I don't really build much out of the LT tier because I need the manpower for paths and paras and the greyhound covers the light vehicle department.

Mostly I just really enjoy using the M20 and AAHT and want to make them work XD
30 Sep 2018, 01:21 AM
#2
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

M20 is still usable but quite overpriced, best thing you can do with it is lay as many mines as you can while it's alive and bait enemies over them with it, very good scouting unit and capping police in the lategame. Though it's bound to get two shot eventually by AT.

I can't use the AAHT for the life of me.
30 Sep 2018, 01:52 AM
#3
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

M20 is still usable but quite overpriced, best thing you can do with it is lay as many mines as you can while it's alive and bait enemies over them with it, very good scouting unit and capping police in the lategame. Though it's bound to get two shot eventually by AT.

I can't use the AAHT for the life of me.

Well I can use the units but I have a tough time overall with not having real at (M20 mines are great but defensive and rather unreliable to base your whole at strategy around) and I have a hard time countering a bunch of team weapons with Lieutenant in general.
30 Sep 2018, 09:41 AM
#4
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3465 | Subs: 1

Don't use Lt light vehicle if you can, USF T1 light vehicle play is a dead horse atm imo. Only exception is on crossroad since the map has 1 more strategic point.
Dual HMG.5 is a better investment and rush for the sherman. Reco commander gives you a nice M8 if you really need an urgent light vehicle to counter something.

And a mortar squad should be enough to counter static players.

Also what is your build order?
1 Oct 2018, 04:28 AM
#5
avatar of Antemurale
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 948

M20 is something that's really fun to use against WM. Usually, it's a strong counter to the Sniper, deals a load of damage at range, and has the cheeky AT mines that you can bait 222s to run over. I forgo the Skirts to plant an extra AT mine--even now most players don't go for sweepers vs USF (because they assume they have no mines).

Of course, the safe strategy is that which was mentioned by Esxile, namely the 2 M2HBs into fast Major into fast Sherman.
1 Oct 2018, 04:34 AM
#6
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

M20 is something that's really fun to use against WM. Usually, it's a strong counter to the Sniper, deals a load of damage at range, and has the cheeky AT mines that you can bait 222s to run over. I forgo the Skirts to plant an extra AT mine--even now most players don't go for sweepers vs USF (because they assume they have no mines).

Of course, the safe strategy is that which was mentioned by Esxile, namely the 2 M2HBs into fast Major into fast Sherman.

Yeah that seems to be the most viable strategy. Probably one of my favorite (definitely my go to) builds is 2-3 rifles into recon support with lieutenant and an hmg. I round it out with paths (sometimes I get early paths instead of a 3rd rifle but that feels a bit like shooting myself in the foot) and paras and wait for a fast sherman. I’ll even sometimes give the paras the bazookas and let the Shermans and rifles and path handle anti infantry along with the .50 cal.

I just wish I could take more advantage of the lights in lieutenant :(
4 Oct 2018, 14:33 PM
#7
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306


Yeah that seems to be the most viable strategy. Probably one of my favorite (definitely my go to) builds is 2-3 rifles into recon support with lieutenant and an hmg. I round it out with paths (sometimes I get early paths instead of a 3rd rifle but that feels a bit like shooting myself in the foot) and paras and wait for a fast sherman. I’ll even sometimes give the paras the bazookas and let the Shermans and rifles and path handle anti infantry along with the .50 cal.

I just wish I could take more advantage of the lights in lieutenant :(


How do you want to take advantage of Lt's light vehicles?
5 Oct 2018, 03:59 AM
#8
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 877

USF light vehicles are useless when your opponent has readily available fausts on all his infantry. The only light vehicle that's somewhat viable is the Stuart as long as you're not facing a Wehrmacht player which will one shot your Stuart with two Panzergren schrek sqauds.

M20 is laughable, you might as well flush it's excessive 320 MP and 20 fuel cost down the toilet than buy this. Gets blown up easily by any axis light vehicle and dies to machine guns pretty quick.

AAHT is just awkward and a pain in the but to use.
5 Oct 2018, 20:25 PM
#9
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046



How do you want to take advantage of Lt's light vehicles?

Actually using them instead of just recon support and .50 cal or heavy cav and captain every game. AAHT actually works pretty decent with recon support I guess, but I usually just make a .50 instead.
6 Oct 2018, 04:47 AM
#10
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 306


Actually using them instead of just recon support and .50 cal or heavy cav and captain every game. AAHT actually works pretty decent with recon support I guess, but I usually just make a .50 instead.


Well, you can use M20 to dislocate MGs or hunt down retreating squads. Of course you know that laying mines is a must with this vehicle. In general, it's a support vehicle which is useful for early game. Now that "refit and refuel" ability will be back on mechanized, my guess is that we will see Captain Tier a lot less. You will be using M20 for its mines and then you will give it away, gaining back manpower and fuel. Sometimes, you can field 2 M20s and let them work in a pair.

Anyways, back to the topic, the AAHT is very good in handling blobs, but you also need infantry guarding it. It's a portable machine gun and can do a great job. You can also use it early on as it can also be used as a counter to the 222 armored car, and if you are good enough in micro, even deal with a Puma. So, you got some kind of anti-vehicle (not anti-armor, as the AAHT struggles against Panzer II) protection until you bring in bazookas and tanks.
6 Oct 2018, 09:42 AM
#11
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3465 | Subs: 1


Actually using them instead of just recon support and .50 cal or heavy cav and captain every game. AAHT actually works pretty decent with recon support I guess, but I usually just make a .50 instead.


AAHT tend to die the moment a Pz4 hit the field. 2 shots, too slow and clumbsy as hell and no escape button.
M20 is too expensive for what it deliver today, or the price need to be reduce or the .50 need to deal much more damage.
8 Oct 2018, 02:19 AM
#12
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 877

jump backJump back to quoted post6 Oct 2018, 09:42 AMEsxile


AAHT tend to die the moment a Pz4 hit the field. 2 shots, too slow and clumbsy as hell and no escape button.
M20 is too expensive for what it deliver today, or the price need to be reduce or the .50 need to deal much more damage.


Doing that might actually give USF some kind of advantage over it's Axis opponents and we can't have that. They should probably nerf the .50 cal again and increase it's cost.
8 Oct 2018, 16:16 PM
#13
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

They already moved some surpression from the .50 cal to vet1 and removed it's sprint while leaving it with a rather small arc of fire.
8 Oct 2018, 18:20 PM
#14
avatar of CODGUY

Posts: 877

They already moved some surpression from the .50 cal to vet1 and removed it's sprint while leaving it with a rather small arc of fire.


That wasn't enough. It can still kinda hurt Axis infantry so it needs another round of nerfs.
8 Oct 2018, 23:06 PM
#15
avatar of LoopDloop

Posts: 3046

I’m not a mod, but this is a strategy forum, not a balance discussion. There’s a time and place and I just want suggestions for gameplay in the current patch, not what should or shouldn’t be done about the next one. Read the OP and if you’d like to contribute something useful go right ahead, and if you just wanna complain about how much usf sucks head over to the balance forums. I might even agree with you, but that’s not what I’m looking for here.
9 Oct 2018, 00:31 AM
#16
avatar of Jae For Jett
Senior Strategist Badge

Posts: 1001 | Subs: 2

I’m not a mod, but this is a strategy forum, not a balance discussion. There’s a time and place and I just want suggestions for gameplay in the current patch, not what should or shouldn’t be done about the next one.

Asking people not to turn every given thread into an excuse to whine about more or less balanced units :lolol:
9 Oct 2018, 01:11 AM
#17
avatar of Outsider_Sidaroth

Posts: 1323 | Subs: 1

The M20 needs some love, you can't change my mind.
9 Oct 2018, 08:52 AM
#18
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3465 | Subs: 1

I’m not a mod, but this is a strategy forum, not a balance discussion. There’s a time and place and I just want suggestions for gameplay in the current patch, not what should or shouldn’t be done about the next one. Read the OP and if you’d like to contribute something useful go right ahead, and if you just wanna complain about how much usf sucks head over to the balance forums. I might even agree with you, but that’s not what I’m looking for here.


Then don't feed trolls, I asked you what was your BO for the Lieutenant start, which is one of the most important information if you need some help. Still waiting.

M20 is too costly today, yes you can build one to harass and protect your flanks but with the recent 222 price reduction, you're simply calling for a 444 vs Ostheer and since 80% of OKW are going T2 vs USF to build a luch, you're most likely going to spend your time repairing it every moment than anything else.

M15, personally I'd rather not build it if I can. Yes it is a mobile suppressive platform but that's all since MrSmith decided to cut his dps in half for no other reason than OKW HT was overperforming at that time and get nerfed so to make sure the M15 wouldn't ended too good. The unit dies in two AT shots, once a Pz4 is fielded its days are counted because of its clumsy mecanism and low health profile.

I'll add that I watch games and cast and yet can't really see a player making a strategy around them.

So in conclusion, yes you can make use of them, I don't say "don't build them or don't use them", but they are completely situational, you can't make a strategy around them. M20 is there to counter sniper and M15 if you need an average armored vehicle to keep 222 or luch at distance with a squad of zook nearby.
Any other case, better stale for fast sherman, HE and punish as much as you can lone squads.

11 Oct 2018, 13:52 PM
#19
avatar of Fire and Terror

Posts: 303

i feel like vs okw you mostly Need to go captain and lieutenant without light vehicles. This is becouse of a sneeky Raketen which can sneek up on an aaht and end the game for you. you Kind of Need the support weapons against OKW. Doctrine wise i prefer the Pershing against okw since it opposes a thread to the most common command Panther while still being good against inf, if your ahead you can still go for Major and get yourself a sherman but that is Kind of tough due to okw strong earlygame

vs wher i think flak ht into recon Company with pak and Greyhound is a valid idea, espacially against Snipers, beware mobile defense though
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