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Ranger Should Use M1Garand instead M1Carbine ?

Ranger use M1 Garand or M1 carbine
Option Distribution Votes
58%
42%
Total votes: 26
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
18 Jul 2018, 09:55 AM
#1
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 312

After I Read This Topic
I see no Ranger use in 1v1
After that I read DevM's Guide
He tell about Ranger Ineffective Non-Urban map (1-1 Map pool have often open field map )
I try to find problem and see with M1 Carbine and Thompson is Mid-Close weapon is got Ranger Assault Role only
when Paratrooper have Flexible By use M1919A6 Or Thompson
And I think idea Use Double M1919A6 is chance to OP Problem
solution Form now I suggest Replace M1 Garand For Flexible situation open field with Garand and can CQC when use Thompson

And IF You agree My suggestion I have extra Question
Ranger Garand shall use Riflemen Profile (accuracy 0.518/0.667/0.713 With 8 damage)
or Better dps By Accuracy buff or Damage buff or Both ?
18 Jul 2018, 10:47 AM
#2
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 991

I really dont know why this would make Rangers more viable and more used in automatch. Rangers have 3 weapon slots, means they have only 2 Garands/Carbines in this case. And with the thompson upgrade it's 1. And if you use rangers without a weapon upgrade... well, then you have done a really bad investment.

Almost nobody uses rangers because they are very expensive and USF doesnt need them. With BAR riflemen you have an equally powerful and cheaper unit that arrives much earlier and has a snare as well.

Your biggest concern as USF player usually is surviving tank rushes from your opponent cuz AT gun and zooks are not very reliable vs p4, panther etc. And Rangers dont help at all with this.

What MIGHT actually be a good idea tho is giving a non-tech smoke grenade to rangers now where rifles got them removed.
18 Jul 2018, 11:45 AM
#3
avatar of TomDRV

Posts: 25

They should move the .50 ca from the Lt to T0, and make it unlock with either LT or Capt (like OKW MG34)

Repalce the .50cal in LT with Rangers, replace rangers in Cavalry doctrine with cavalry riflemen.
18 Jul 2018, 11:46 AM
#4
avatar of LeOverlord

Posts: 84

I really dont know why this would make Rangers more viable and more used in automatch. Rangers have 3 weapon slots, means they have only 2 Garands/Carbines in this case. And with the thompson upgrade it's 1. And if you use rangers without a weapon upgrade... well, then you have done a really bad investment.

Almost nobody uses rangers because they are very expensive and USF doesnt need them. With BAR riflemen you have an equally powerful and cheaper unit that arrives much earlier and has a snare as well.

Your biggest concern as USF player usually is surviving tank rushes from your opponent cuz AT gun and zooks are not very reliable vs p4, panther etc. And Rangers dont help at all with this.

What MIGHT actually be a good idea tho is giving a non-tech smoke grenade to rangers now where rifles got them removed.


Who calls Rangers and doesn't upgrade to Thompsons? I mean, they are killing machines and if you manage to bring 2 squads into the game, you are fine on the anti-infantry part, plus you can use them as both meat shields for MGs and as flankers to quickly wipe anything standing in front of you, from a single MG, to whole concentrations of team weapons so that your columns can advance without facing much resistance.
18 Jul 2018, 14:45 PM
#5
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 14

In my mod, I gave them better-than-riflemen Garands and replaced the Thompson package with one that gives 2 Thompsons and 1 M2 Carbine (almost twice as fast as their original M1 Carbines). Both of these changes left them with comparable overall dps, but with a flatter range curve.

I also changed their veterancy- no more grenade cooldown bonuses, but a little more accuracy and a reload bonus. That makes weapon upgrades more effective on them.

Rangers have the same weapons and vet as paras at the moment, and I think the changes I made make them more unique.
18 Jul 2018, 17:28 PM
#6
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 312

about 3 slot weapon if use Thompson with another Support weapon like Bar and
zook it have A risk to drop when he die (33%) at soldier to carry this
unlike other infantry drop at last man squad

And 3 Bar Set it good but 180 munition need more time to rise without
Bazooka equip or mine laying or smoke drop and combine arms active
-------
another reason is keep Ranger for Manpower bleed form assault
like obersoldaten this good Long dps for save manpower to Volk
18 Jul 2018, 18:43 PM
#7
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 2595 | Subs: 1

about 3 slot weapon if use Thompson with another Support weapon like Bar and
zook it have A risk to drop when he die (33%) at soldier to carry this
unlike other infantry drop at last man squad
....

That is incorrect the drop mechanism does not work that way. When an entity carrying a drop-able weapon dies the game moves the weapon to an empty slot if there is one available. If there is not available roll a dice to check if the weapon will drop or not.
18 Jul 2018, 18:59 PM
#8
avatar of RoastinGhost

Posts: 14

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jul 2018, 18:43 PMVipper

That is incorrect the drop mechanism does not work that way. When an entity carrying a drop-able weapon dies the game moves the weapon to an empty slot if there is one available. If there is not available roll a dice to check if the weapon will drop or not.


I think what he's trying to say is that when a ranger squad has 4 thompsons and a BAR, and the BAR man is killed, the weapon has a chance to drop. This is because the men using the thompsons already have a weapon upgrade, and will not be able to switch to the BAR. There isn't an empty soldier available.

That's actually why in my mod the Automatic Weapon Upgrade only gives 3 guns- to allow for an extra default-weapon soldier.
18 Jul 2018, 19:24 PM
#9
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 136

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70319/us-carbine-caliber-30-m1

Please read my previous thread and poll on this same topic.

My thread is a little bit broader in scope, but covers the same material and might be useful to you.
19 Jul 2018, 02:36 AM
#10
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 312

https://www.coh2.org/topic/70319/us-carbine-caliber-30-m1

Please read my previous thread and poll on this same topic.

My thread is a little bit broader in scope, but covers the same material and might be useful to you.


oh I see my past I vote no for Paratroop with Garand

At Ranger
Ranger Role now it Assault troop and have addition choice upgrade 4 Thompson for boostup Close Dps or use BAR for boost up Close and mid DPS
if change to garand not problem now


USF Assault Troop is not work in 1v1 GCS2 For now
19 Jul 2018, 04:47 AM
#11
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 136




USF Assault Troop is not work in 1v1 GCS2 For now


USF isn’t working in GCS 2 at all. Lol

If GCS 2 is a good indicator of game balance, which I think it is (if the best players in the world aren’t a good indicator of how to play the game then I don’t know what is!), then Axis are currently performing approximately balanced against Soviets, (Soviet win percentage is ~47%) and are severely overpowered against USF and UKF (at about 27% for USF and even lower for UKF).

So the problem is that USF and UKF need buffs in general to their core units. Balance is generally good for the other three factions though, so that’s good at least.
19 Jul 2018, 06:29 AM
#12
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 221


If GCS 2 is a good indicator of game balance, which I think it is (if the best players in the world aren’t a good indicator of how to play the game then I don’t know what is!)


We've already established that it isn't: due to low sample size, biased data and because of the difference in balance between 1v1s and team games. USF and UKF generally perform fine in the corridor maps of team games.
19 Jul 2018, 06:48 AM
#13
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 210



We've already established that it isn't: due to low sample size, biased data and because of the difference in balance between 1v1s and team games.


Are you the collective consciousness of the forum? Who the heck is "we", and if you think gcs data doesn't hint at anything, you must have a really high threshold for the amount of data/info needed to make a claim...


USF and UKF generally perform fine in the corridor maps of team games.


Oh, well then.
19 Jul 2018, 09:34 AM
#14
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 221


Are you the collective consciousness of the forum? Who the heck is "we", and if you think gcs data doesn't hint at anything, you must have a really high threshold for the amount of data/info needed to make a claim...


I see you happened to miss the entire thread about the GCS2 statistics in which it was ultimately agreed upon by a majority (including AE) that these stats can only give a vague indication of strengths at best but the data wasn't anywhere near being solid scientific evidence to prove anything.
19 Jul 2018, 14:59 PM
#15
avatar of SkysTheLimit

Posts: 210



I see you happened to miss the entire thread about the GCS2 statistics in which it was ultimately agreed upon by a majority (including AE) that these stats can only give a vague indication of strengths at best but the data wasn't anywhere near being solid scientific evidence to prove anything.


No I didn't. I just think it's funny that you made a statement about balance with even less support for that claim than GCS data. If GCS tourney data is unreliable, then how the hell can you claim what you did about team games?

I'm essentially saying it's better than nothing, which is what you offered.
19 Jul 2018, 18:36 PM
#16
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 86

id personally like to see them having more utility, making them their namesake of being good at both marksmanship and sabotage. Id like them having garands, being bit stronger rifles, and having access to demo charges.
19 Jul 2018, 19:29 PM
#17
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 302

i would like to see rangers having smoke
19 Jul 2018, 19:55 PM
#18
avatar of Goldenpunch

Posts: 6

i would like to see rangers having smoke


+1
Rangers desperately needs smoke now.
20 Jul 2018, 05:31 AM
#19
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930 | Subs: 1

After I Read This Topic
I see no Ranger use in 1v1
After that I read DevM's Guide
He tell about Ranger Ineffective Non-Urban map (1-1 Map pool have often open field map )
I try to find problem and see with M1 Carbine and Thompson is Mid-Close weapon is got Ranger Assault Role only
when Paratrooper have Flexible By use M1919A6 Or Thompson
And I think idea Use Double M1919A6 is chance to OP Problem
solution Form now I suggest Replace M1 Garand For Flexible situation open field with Garand and can CQC when use Thompson

And IF You agree My suggestion I have extra Question
Ranger Garand shall use Riflemen Profile (accuracy 0.518/0.667/0.713 With 8 damage)
or Better dps By Accuracy buff or Damage buff or Both ?


the carbine on the ranger are actually the same elite carbine used on the paratrooper. It's an elite carbine that's actually one of the best rifle in the game and better than the rifle garand in every way.

the ranger carbine have a dps profile of 1.8-9.9. That's around the same as the volks stg44's 1.9-8.0. 5 of them on a squad is amazing.

the rifleman garand have a dps profile of 1.67-6.76. It is strictly inferior to the elite carbine in.

switching the ranger to the rifleman garand is a straight nerf

is it misleading for an elite rifle to use the same visual model as the rear echelon carbine? yes, but the other choice is to just use the garand model.

interested that over 50% of the people vote for to switch the ranger to a garand, a straight nerf.
20 Jul 2018, 06:17 AM
#20
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 312

M1 carbine with accuracy (0.403/0.518/0.805) is good fight mid-close Range
when fight in open field it risk to get Focus fire first and lose model first
You tell use Riflemen garand is nerf for ranger
Why not give better Garand gun profile to ranger ?
like obersoldaten Aimbot Kar98K (in timing arrive should not level same obersoldaten)
Ranger Info Form Commander Card It tell Their are elite with marksmanship skill why their cannot use garand with better skill ?
(conscript Mosin and Guard mosin is not same Profile )
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