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RELIC wake up and fix damn RNG please!

13 Jul 2018, 22:38 PM
#21
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52



Rng is not unfair. The numbers are generated with the same distribution for all players. Sometimes you get a lucky roll, sometimes your opponent, but when there is thousands of rolls every game, it evens out almost every game.



skill shall take the place of luck don't you think ?
13 Jul 2018, 22:41 PM
#22
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885




skill shall take the place of luck don't you think ?


Risk management is the ultimate skill of coh2. That is why RNG is what defines this game.

Also, there is no luck, there is only statistics. People seem to remember only when they were unlucky, but when they were lucky, they think it was their skill. And they usually can't even define what kind of skill that was.
13 Jul 2018, 22:43 PM
#23
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

RNG shall be balanced not removed okay ? do you understand difference between them ??


I'll do my best to explain this to you.

Every tank in CoH 2 has an armor value, and every gun has a penetration value.

When you hit a tank, the game divides the gun's penetration value by the tank's armor value. It then generates a random number between 0 and 1. If that number is lower than penetration/armor, the shot penetrates. If it's higher, it bounces off.

If you fire a gun with 250 penetration at a tank with 300 armor, it's got an 83.3% chance to penetrate. That means it has a 16.7% chance to bounce off.
13 Jul 2018, 22:45 PM
#24
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8




skill shall take the place of luck don't you think ?


Yeah...
Skill...



If you think its just luck that decides the games, then RNG is not the problem.
Its the very low skill of yours that is.

If it was all about luck, we wouldn't have so many balance patches and discussions.

Plus, this thread exists exclusively because ONE single instance that made you incredibly butthurt, its not something that happens consistently.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
You are low skill player, but in the past you've shown the willingness to learn.
Don't throw that away and become another hopeless ullumulu or incendiary, keep learning and improving your skill, because you're nowhere near the level where luck decides the game.
13 Jul 2018, 22:48 PM
#25
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52




You mean like when Colombia headbutted an England player in the box and only a yellow card was awarded instead of a red? Or should I list a few more times England have been screwed by a refs decision or "rng" as you call it.

Regardless of Football, still doesn't change RNG in this game. The ref isn't rolling a dice to decide what his decision is.


you got it yellow card instead of red card is just like RNG happened.

yeah referee doesn't roll a dice but a wrong decision is still a wrong decision whether its by dice or by weak referee's choice.

mistakes shall get to minimum
13 Jul 2018, 22:48 PM
#26
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2018, 22:43 PMLago


I'll do my best to explain this to you.

Every tank in CoH 2 has an armor value, and every gun has a penetration value.

When you hit a tank, the game divides the gun's penetration value by the tank's armor value. It then generates a random number between 0 and 1. If that number is lower than penetration/armor, the shot penetrates. If it's higher, it bounces off.

If you fire a gun with 250 penetration at a tank with 300 armor, it's got an 83.3% chance to penetrate. That means it has a 16.7% chance to bounce off.


I think what OP fails to understand is not how single random even works, but that they are independent of each other. Many statistic-unaware people think that getting one result of a roll means that the opposite result is more probable in the next roll. This is obviously wrong, but may seem more intuitive.

Hope this helps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gambler%27s_fallacy
13 Jul 2018, 23:08 PM
#27
avatar of Puppetmaster
Patrion 310

Posts: 871



you got it yellow card instead of red card is just like RNG happened.

yeah referee doesn't roll a dice but a wrong decision is still a wrong decision whether its by dice or by weak referee's choice.

mistakes shall get to minimum


Please explain how the ref came to his decision, explaining specifically how he generated the result randomly.
13 Jul 2018, 23:10 PM
#28
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jul 2018, 22:45 PMKatitof


Yeah...
Skill...



If you think its just luck that decides the games, then RNG is not the problem.
Its the very low skill of yours that is.

If it was all about luck, we wouldn't have so many balance patches and discussions.

Plus, this thread exists exclusively because ONE single instance that made you incredibly butthurt, its not something that happens consistently.

Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.
You are low skill player, but in the past you've shown the willingness to learn.
Don't throw that away and become another hopeless ullumulu or incendiary, keep learning and improving your skill, because you're nowhere near the level where luck decides the game.



Yeah very low skill of mine you are right !! when i shoot to a 1 % tank with 2 At guns and 1 tank destroyer and nothing happens (even 0.99999999 % damage) it my low skill. nice joke


Do me a favor will you ? stop posting in this forum let players who win the game by skill write posts here not players who win game by Luck/RNG okay ? Thanks
13 Jul 2018, 23:25 PM
#29
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52



Risk management is the ultimate skill of coh2. That is why RNG is what defines this game.

Also, there is no luck, there is only statistics. People seem to remember only when they were unlucky, but when they were lucky, they think it was their skill. And they usually can't even define what kind of skill that was.


there is luck called RNG

there are 2 kinds of RNGs ; let me explain you by example

Example #1 : you are playing as Soviet and have 1 AT gun and then enemy brings his Panther
you manage to take out p4 with 10 shots how ? > 7 shots penetrated 3 shots de-penetrated.

Example #2 : you are playing as Soviet and have 1 AT gun again then enemy brings his Panther
you do 20 AT gun shots but Panther runs away . why ? because of ridiculous RNG 15 shots depenetrated.


well RNG in ex #1 is fine and acceptable but #2 ? no man that doesn't make any sense.

i want to say the difference between ex#1 and #2 shall not be that long. sometimes such things really happen and ruin the game.
13 Jul 2018, 23:33 PM
#30
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885



there is luck called RNG

there are 2 kinds of RNGs ; let me explain you by example

Example #1 : you are playing as Soviet and have 1 AT gun and then enemy brings his Panther
you manage to take out p4 with 10 shots how ? > 7 shots penetrated 3 shots de-penetrated.

Example #2 : you are playing as Soviet and have 1 AT gun again then enemy brings his Panther
you do 20 AT gun shots but Panther runs away . why ? because of ridiculous RNG 15 shots depenetrated.


well RNG in ex #1 is fine and acceptable but #2 ? no man that doesn't make any sense.

i want to say the difference between ex#1 and #2 shall not be that long. sometimes such things really happen and ruin the game.


Why do you think the example #2 doesn't make any sense? It makes just as much sense as #1, it simply is much less common.

Btw. What you call "RNG" is not what that acronym means. You mean "random event" and you should use that term instead. Like I said, the only difference between the events in example are their probability. From gameplay perspective they make exactly as much sense.

Also, you talk a lot about the skill. Can you explain what you mean by that? I feel a formal definition of that term can save us another 30 posts of misunderstandings.
13 Jul 2018, 23:37 PM
#31
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911

i hate injustice RNG you know that


Random numbers are random :*( :*( :*(
14 Jul 2018, 01:00 AM
#32
avatar of Nosliw

Posts: 515

Hello everyone

as you already know Company of Heroes 2 is great RTS game specially now after some updates BUT

the main question is >>>> Why Relic didn't fix RNG ?!

well i should say Coh2 is really good game but there are still some small things that causing big problems :

first and most biggest problem is RNG

i recently had a 2vs2 match and was playing as allies , when it came to late game Wehrmacht brought brummbar , i managed to reduce its hp to 1 % then i targeted it with AT guns .

you think what the result was ?! :D

3 Direct hits and depenetration GG brummbar ran away and we lost that game .

btw this silly thing didn't happen for 1 time it happened for 3 times .

GG RELIC WP


ZIS gun has 160 penetration at long range (which for this calculation I will assume it was, since most brummbars don't move up close)

Brummbar has 260 armour

160/260 = 0.615 = 61.5% chance of penetration or 38.5% chance of deflection

Chance of 3 deflections is .385*.385*.385 = 0.057 = 5.7%

Therefore what happened to will likely happen to anybody in one of every 20 games.
14 Jul 2018, 06:19 AM
#33
avatar of Diogenes5

Posts: 269

RNG in this game is in a perfect right now. The worst part of RNG were the things that could wipe squads in the early game. Granted, you can still lose squads early game but only if you're taking unnecessary risks like fighting with half-health squads near a mortar now. Gone are the days when a single mine could wipe out a full health squad. That was absolutely bonkers game design and has been gladly removed from the game.

If the RNG isn't something that one shots; then that means counterplay is possible and one player could've done better.

OP didn't lose to RNG. A brumbar that weak would've been killed by a 222 hitting its rear armor. You failed to have any mobile AT and lost. It's that simple. Don't blame RNG for your mistakes.
14 Jul 2018, 08:04 AM
#34
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52



Why do you think the example #2 doesn't make any sense? It makes just as much sense as #1, it simply is much less common.

Btw. What you call "RNG" is not what that acronym means. You mean "random event" and you should use that term instead. Like I said, the only difference between the events in example are their probability. From gameplay perspective they make exactly as much sense.

Also, you talk a lot about the skill. Can you explain what you mean by that? I feel a formal definition of that term can save us another 30 posts of misunderstandings.


lets see if same thing(example#2) happens to you , you will rage or not. if you didn't rage you are right but i'm pretty sure you will. if you reference to your wisdom it will say that it doesn't make any sense.

skill means having multi-tasking , right strategies , making your enemy make mistakes and use them to crush him etc... when you do these and you are about to take the enemy tank out but it doesn't because of bugged RNG. it means the game doesn't make sense.

******* What will be the difference between good and noob player in that case ? noob wins the game because luck and good wins the game because he was unlucky. The important question is >>>>

***** IS THAT FAIR ? *****


let me say something again : i'm not saying RNG shall be removed im saying it shall be balanced.
14 Jul 2018, 08:13 AM
#35
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52



Random numbers are random :*( :*( :*(


i know but its all about the possibility and these possibilities are balanceable

think a bit before posting :loco:
14 Jul 2018, 08:21 AM
#36
avatar of TheKingTiger1

Posts: 52

RNG in this game is in a perfect right now. The worst part of RNG were the things that could wipe squads in the early game. Granted, you can still lose squads early game but only if you're taking unnecessary risks like fighting with half-health squads near a mortar now. Gone are the days when a single mine could wipe out a full health squad. That was absolutely bonkers game design and has been gladly removed from the game.

If the RNG isn't something that one shots; then that means counterplay is possible and one player could've done better.

OP didn't lose to RNG. A brumbar that weak would've been killed by a 222 hitting its rear armor. You failed to have any mobile AT and lost. It's that simple. Don't blame RNG for your mistakes.


brumbar was close to my at guns and it has like really low HP but thanks to RNG it could survive from 3 direct hit ATs. tell me how it feels when 3 direct AT hits don't get penetrated on low hp armor.

well as you know AT means Anti tank so it should be able to take out tanks at least at low hp.
14 Jul 2018, 09:15 AM
#37
avatar of insaneHoshi

Posts: 911



i know but its all about the possibility and these possibilities are balanceable

think a bit before posting :loco:


Think about what? You've brought nothing but NaCl about how randomness does not seem to suit your winrate and offering no actual solutions.

Infact if anything were to change, you would probably just come back and bitch about why all your tanks are being penetrated 3 times in a row.
14 Jul 2018, 09:24 AM
#38
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

i know but its all about the possibility and these possibilities are balanceable

think a bit before posting :loco:


I'll put it another way.



You rolled this, and now you think the dice don't work properly.
14 Jul 2018, 09:58 AM
#39
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8



i know but its all about the possibility and these possibilities are balanceable

think a bit before posting :loco:


Prepare to have your mind blown

14 Jul 2018, 10:10 AM
#40
avatar of wandererraven

Posts: 353

If you want RNG out of this game
How to fix Infantry small arms fight
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