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russian armor

Commander Rework approach

21 Jul 2018, 10:59 AM
#21
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

2) Balance commander themselves by removing abilities combination that are simply too strong.

Generally avoid combination of weapon upgrades, premium mediums, Super heavies and powerful off maps.

Here is list of commander that imo should change:

Soviet tactics


A) KV-8. Remove from commander with super heavies. KV-8 can not become a call-in (with not tech cost) since it a specialized vehicle and can not be used as delay for super heavies. One can then balance the unit is there is a need for to allow strategies without T4.

Affected tactics:
Shock Rifle Frontline Tactics (IS-2/KV-8)
Soviet Industry Tactics (KV-2/KV-8)

The ability could then be replaced with things like: recon flight, propaganda artillery, sturmovic strafe single pass, Booby Trap Territory, Tank traps, PMD mines, Green T-34s, Dshk, rapid conscription...

B) Remove the combination of powerful off maps (mark target, IL-2 bombing, IL-2 attacks) and premium vehicles.

Mark target. This ability amplifies the effect of premium vehicles and should be avoided.

Affected tactics:

Guards Motor Coordination Tactics (mark target/ T-34/85)
Mechanized Support Tactics (mark target/ ISU-152)
The ability could then be replaced with things like: recon flight, propaganda artillery, sturmovic strafe single pass, Booby Trap Territory, Tank traps, PMD mines, Dshk, rapid conscription...

IL-2 bombing. Super heavies need support and someone faced with them should be able to use artillery to soften the support so abilities that can hard counter static artillery create a powerful combo.

Affected tactics:
Mechanized Support Tactics (IL-2 bombing/ ISU-152)
Shock Motor Heavy Tactics (IL-2 bombing/ ISU-152)
The ability could then be replaced with things like: recon flight, incendiary artillery, propaganda artillery, sturmovic strafe single pass, Booby Trap Territory, Tank traps, PMD mines, Dshk, rapid conscription...

IL-2 Sturmovik Attacks. Again a powerful loiter off map than can be used to easily protect a super heavy tank when the enemy decided to attack.

Affected tactics:
Armored Assault Tactics (IS-2/IL-2 Sturmovik Attacks)
Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics (KV-1/IL-2 Sturmovik Attacks)
The ability could then be replaced

C) Remove the ppsh upgrade from commander with premium vehicles.
Weapon upgrade should not be combined with powerful vehicles since the combination can increase the pressure to the enemy to deal with the up-gunned infantry leaving even more vulnerable to powerful vehicles.

Affected tactics:
Advanced Warfare Tactics (T-34/85,PPsh)
Conscript Support Tactics (KV-1,PPsh)
Guard Rifle Combined Arms Tactics (KV-1,PPsh)

One could remove the KV-1 from 1 commander or replace the ppsh with things like: recon flight, incendiary artillery, propaganda artillery, sturmovic strafe single pass, Booby Trap Territory, Tank traps, PMD mines, Dshk, rapid conscription...


22 Jul 2018, 09:19 AM
#22
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

2) Balance commander themselves by removing abilities combination that are simply too strong.

Generally avoid combination of weapon upgrades, premium mediums, Super heavies and powerful off maps.

Here is list of commander that imo should change:
USF

Infantry Company (Priest/Time on Target Artillery Barrage)

This combination is quite effective vs OKW trucks, ToT could be replaced either by and arty less powerful or with "Off Map Smoke Barrage".

Other changes:
USF elite infantry. Since the majority of USF build include multiple infantry by the time USF elite infantry become available there is little room for them. So my suggestion would be to reduce the CP requirement of the units to 1 or 2 and also reduce their punch. On the other hand allow to become strong once Major is built.

For instance:
Paratroopers available at CP1 for 300 mp as 5 men squad no weapon slots, comes with grenades and smoke grenades unlocked. Once major is unlocked they can upgrade with lmgs or Thompson. Thompson upgrade gives them 1 extra member and 6 Thompson (weapon is rebalanced to perform as smg with far less mid damage).

Ranger available at CP2 for 300 mp as 5 men squad no weapon slots, comes with grenades and sprint. Once major is unlocked they can upgrade with Thompson and get 3 weapon slots. Thompson upgrade gives them 5 Thompson take all weapon slots (weapon is rebalanced to perform as smg with far less mid damage).

Other abilities:
Riflemen field defenses renamed to field defenses. Sandbags and mines moved to R.E. wire and fighting position left riflemen.

M1919A6 Browning LMG remove from weapon rack and become available as an upgrade to R.E., price lowered to 50 takes up all weapon slots, lower the target size penalty for using volley fire.



Other commanders:
Swap m10 from with Armor Company with 76 Sherman Mechanized company.

Additional changes:
M10 become a call in unit again.

76 Sherman's vet bonus and reload is fixed since the unit can end up firing with a reload bellow 2 secs.

Optional. Change the role of dozer to indirect fire unit or dual role unit. For instance it can be a barrage unit like a priest with less range providing support from the battle field or modeled after KV-2 gaining range is a locked down mode.

Reason:
The M10 being call in on its own is fine as long as no AI tank like the dozer is available in the same commander since if some one does not tech major will have no AI tanks. The unit can easily be nerfed slightly if proven problematic by removing the AP rounds.

In addition a "medium td" is far more suitable for a commander with a "mechanized" theme.

Finally the changes to dozer will help it with overlap with Sherman HE.
22 Jul 2018, 14:34 PM
#23
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

3) Keep abilities and commanders to a "theme" as much as possible

Tank Hunter Tactics.

For a commander with an AT theme Ml20 seems out of place providing too much AI. An ability like "mark target" (combined with changes to AT bombing) or scavenger would fit the commander more.

Same goes for "AT Ambush" that benefits T-70/T-34/76 AI allot more than SU-76/SU-85 AT role.

Lend Lease Tactics

Dhsk could easily be replaced by a re-skinned 0.50. The stat don't need to changes since a 6 men crew on the 0.50 could prove problematic.

M5 Half-track Assault Group.
This vehicle could easily be replaced with "M15A1 AA Half-track" allowing soviet to have AA without investing to MU.

Assault Guards could replace "conscript repair kit" while they could start with mosins and have USF upgrades available to them like: Bars, bazookas maybe even toned down Thompson (current mid damage is too high)

29 Aug 2018, 20:29 PM
#24
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Steps in the wrong direction (imo) in the new Patch:

The "scope bypass"
Some of the changes in abilities seem to be there so that some units can be re-balanced while being outside of scope as an example:
Churchill Crocodile (available to 2 commanders)
KV-8 (available to 4 commanders)
Shock troops (available to 6 commanders)
LeFH (available to 1 commanders)
Stormtroopers (available to 2 commanders)

Many of these changes do not seem to fit the commander theme and seem to have more to do with rebalancing units.

Although some of the changes might be actually good adding units to commanders just to fix them is the wrong way to design commanders. The focus should be to other things like the theme and a good mix of abilities that help promote different play-styles but do not dominate the meta.
30 Aug 2018, 13:36 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

The Damage syndrome
It seems that in the effort to make doctrinal option more attractive units tent to be over-buffed and usually their DPS is simply too high.
One can see this in the current changes in this patch where some units received buffs that are simply too high, like:
M10 Tank Destroyer
Sherman 105mm Dozer
Sexton
Churchill Crocodile
KV-8
Shock Troops
45mm Anti-Tank Gun

This solution is "easy" but usually end up with creating more problem than it solves. Instead designing doctrinal units that compete with stock units one should design that supplement stock units or provide additional utility/strategies.

For instance M-10 is a unit that is already good with 2 abilities AP round and speed. The only reason it is not used more is that the M-36 is so effective vs all target that is usually a "better" investment. Now is one kept M-36 good vs super heavies but less effective vs mediums by reducing accuracy for instance the M-10 would be used more without having to add a 3 ability to the unit.

The dozer competing with Sherman HE is another example, where the buff it receives are large both in lethality and resilience. One could easily solve the problem either by redesign the dozer as indirect fire assault gun or a heavy tank or by removing the HE round from the Sherman.

Increasing the damage output of unit is the wrong way to about things since if the duration of fight is reduced after a certain point the fight become more a matter of luck and less a matter of tactics.
17 Sep 2018, 21:36 PM
#26
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13476 | Subs: 1

Transferred from another thread, where it was off topic:

jump backJump back to quoted post16 Sep 2018, 09:21 AMKirrik
And why exactly it has no place in Urban doctrine? It make sense thematically and armor callins are basically must-have for a viable soviet commander pick, soviet late game tanks are a joke in comparison to Axis.

Your advices are basically boil down to how make even more unviable commanders which noone would pick

If armor call-ins are must have for viable Soviet commander then it the Soviet stock unit that need a buff. Adding a armor call-ins in every Soviet commander to make them viable, instead of buffing stock unit would be a bad solution.

The argument that Urban defense needs KV-8 to be viable holds little water.
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