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russian armor

Remove the T34/76 model variant with the fuel tanks

18 Jun 2018, 18:43 PM
#61
avatar of Sander93

Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 18:18 PMLago
The fact that this thread exists is proof that some people do have trouble telling the 76 and the 85 apart based on the turret.


But based on the evidence provided, the fact that some people struggle to distinguish the vehicles is caused by their own lack of knowledge because there's an abundance of visual (and auditory) clues.
18 Jun 2018, 19:06 PM
#63
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

I'm going to +1 the suggestion about making unit icon more distinct.
That is easiest to make and you'd have to be exceptionally dumb to not tell 2 different icons apart.
18 Jun 2018, 19:12 PM
#64
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 19:06 PMKatitof
I'm going to +1 the suggestion about making unit icon more distinct.
That is easiest to make and you'd have to be exceptionally dumb to not tell 2 different icons apart.


There's no real reason not to do that but it wouldn't make them more distinct to the opponent which is what I think the issue is.
18 Jun 2018, 19:13 PM
#65
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 19:12 PMLago


There's no real reason not to do that but it wouldn't make them more distinct to the opponent which is what I think the issue is.

Opponents see unit icons too you know.
Moreover, the icons is exactly what you see on tactical map.
That is literally all that needs to be changed here.

How often you get obliterated in close range by conscripts fully merged into shock squad, because you thought they were cons?
18 Jun 2018, 19:23 PM
#66
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 19:13 PMKatitof
How often you get obliterated in close range by conscripts fully merged into shock squad, because you thought they were cons?


how often do people build shocks

Tanks don't have icons displayed over them. Infantry do.

It's no secret that CoH 2 is terrible at communicating important information to the player: we're talking about a game here that has one slot weapon icon per squad yet lets squads pick up two. Most of these problems are too baked in to fix at this point.

This supposed problem with the T-34/76 however is very easily fixed: all that's needed is to remove the fuel tank variants which were added a year or so ago.

I have no issue telling the 76 and 85 apart, the turret's all I've ever needed. I also quite like the visual variety with some having fuel tanks and some not: it's a nice touch like the different voices. But it really is causing confusion I wouldn't lose sleep over going back to just the plain 76.
18 Jun 2018, 19:53 PM
#67
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 19:23 PMLago


Tanks don't have icons displayed over them. Infantry do.

Well, I'm addicted to tac map, so its likely I'll see icon first vehicle second.

It's no secret that CoH 2 is terrible at communicating important information to the player: we're talking about a game here that has one slot weapon icon per squad yet lets squads pick up two. Most of these problems are too baked in to fix at this point.

This supposed problem with the T-34/76 however is very easily fixed: all that's needed is to remove the fuel tank variants which were added a year or so ago.

Reread that slowly.
But to the point:
It was not an issue for however long time.
It suddenly is, because someone can't tell the difference.
The game should have more variety like that, not less.
If someone is losing the game, because of this, maybe that someone is not the most competitive player around.

I have no issue telling the 76 and 85 apart, the turret's all I've ever needed. I also quite like the visual variety with some having fuel tanks and some not: it's a nice touch like the different voices. But it really is causing confusion I wouldn't lose sleep over going back to just the plain 76.

Taking any flavor like that, that does not even matter for balance is a painful blow for the game.
Same thing with female partisans(never forget).
18 Jun 2018, 20:03 PM
#68
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

If you intend to fix communication discrepancies you need to go all in. Hit the dirt is on 2 squads and it does the opposite on each squad, some recon reveals camod units others don't. As said the weapon slots thing... Some squads only have 1 slot, some weapons take multiple slots and squads with both slots filled don't tell you what weapons are there! Some undroppable weapon upgrades take up slots and others don't..
Perhaps there should be a "clarity" patch that cleans up some wording and general conflicting models/information...
18 Jun 2018, 20:24 PM
#69
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

If you intend to fix communication discrepancies you need to go all in.


Not at all.

Don't fix one thing if you can't fix everything is a strange mentality to have.

The best reason to keep the T-34/76 variants as they are is because they look nice, not because there are other unrelated UI problems that can't be fixed.
18 Jun 2018, 20:25 PM
#70
avatar of The amazing Chandler

Posts: 1355

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 07:24 AMA_E
The sherman arguments are redundant here, yes they should do a better job of helping players distinguish between them too... just because they don't it doesn't mean that they should have added fuel barrels to T34-76s on a random basis like they did!


This 100%

Since this came out I thought that it was/is the most unnecessary change ever. Was not needed, adds nothing to the game and it was a waste of time to implement it.
The only thing it does is confuse the opponent (a little) and not in a good way.
18 Jun 2018, 20:31 PM
#71
avatar of ElSlayer

Posts: 1605 | Subs: 1

Looks like someone got rekt by T-34-85 :D
19 Jun 2018, 02:14 AM
#72
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 19:23 PMLago


Tanks don't have icons displayed over them. Infantry do.



Huh?

All vehicles have the little icon above them in my games... and in the games I see others stream or cast.

Am I misunderstanding what 'icon' refers to?
19 Jun 2018, 05:26 AM
#73
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5279

jump backJump back to quoted post18 Jun 2018, 20:24 PMLago


Not at all.

Don't fix one thing if you can't fix everything is a strange mentality to have.

The best reason to keep the T-34/76 variants as they are is because they look nice, not because there are other unrelated UI problems that can't be fixed.

I misworded that. I meant if you open the can of worms of fixing that shit PLEASE do it all.
19 Jun 2018, 10:16 AM
#74
avatar of Lago

Posts: 3260

Huh?

All vehicles have the little icon above them in my games... and in the games I see others stream or cast.

Am I misunderstanding what 'icon' refers to?


No, you're right. I've somehow managed to think that icons I see on an almost daily basis don't exist, despite the fact that they appear in the very photo that kicked off this thread.

That makes everything much more simple: just add something distinguishing to the icon, like the three Command Tanks have. No model changes needed.



19 Jun 2018, 11:52 AM
#75
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

jump backJump back to quoted post19 Jun 2018, 10:16 AMLago






This is rather irritating. I would immediately think of a Command T34 here (I am a UX designer btw).
Personally maybe adding a small dot above the tank in the icon could make more sense. Like they did with the 120mm mortar. But also this is imo not perfect solution.

Btw I also think that from a visual and UX point of view, giving the 76 the barrels back was not a good idea. It is hard to impossible to differentiate the 76 and 85 tanks for new players. Suddenly a T34 appears and they wonder why it punches down a P4.

Clicking the unit as Katitof mentioned is also no way to go here. In the heat of a battle where you have to place your units and move them around, it is simply too much for a "noob" to also check if the approaching tanks are "easy" or "hard" to break.
19 Jun 2018, 12:05 PM
#76
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17875 | Subs: 8


Clicking the unit as Katitof mentioned is also no way to go here. In the heat of a battle where you have to place your units and move them around, it is simply too much for a "noob" to also check if the approaching tanks are "easy" or "hard" to break.

That's not what I've said.
I've said making an icon more distinct is all that's needed.
19 Jun 2018, 12:50 PM
#77
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3596 | Subs: 1

Remember me me how I was confused for quite some time with Cons/Penals the first days I played the game.
19 Jun 2018, 17:06 PM
#78
avatar of ferwiner
Donator 11

Posts: 2885

Changing the icon is a good solution. But the cross is a bad idea. Just make the gun line wider and the turret blot a little bigger and you are done.
19 Jun 2018, 17:46 PM
#79
avatar of zarok47

Posts: 587

Or just reverse an unneeded change.
21 Jun 2018, 04:44 AM
#80
avatar of murky depths

Posts: 607

TBH I don't care either way, but changing the icon would also carry the benefit of helping people who are obsessed with the tac-map.
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