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russian armor

mortar team balance

7 Sep 2013, 18:32 PM
#61
avatar of Spetznova

Posts: 29

jump backJump back to quoted post5 Sep 2013, 07:43 AMMauser

This thread is about 120mm being able to retreat at one man, whereas other mortars cannot. That's it.


If that's all there is to discuss, I don't think there's much to really say. I personally think it's fine as is, but those who think the mortar is OP will of course want it changed.

Yes it can retreat with 1 man while the others can't, but it has 3 disadvantages that the others don't: it's doctrinal, it costs 360 manpower, and it costs a whopping 12 population - which is twice as much as the others (even the mortar halftrack only costs 6 population!). The bottom line is that the 120 mm mortar is different than the others in many ways, so why get so hung up on this particular difference?

I keep hearing the argument that it's unreasonable for one man to carry that mortar - but to fix that "problem" they would actually need to change the animation itself. But moreover, why should we care about soldiers lifting more than is realistically possible? If we did, the AT guns would be damn near immobile.
7 Sep 2013, 18:41 PM
#62
avatar of Blovski

Posts: 480

jump backJump back to quoted post28 Aug 2013, 07:25 AMMauser
Ok so here is my concern

  • German mortar is 4 man, which was a good change imo, but you still only have effectively 3 men, cos the last guy abandons it.
  • The thing that irritates me is the soviet 120mm. You can kill 5 guys and it still retreats with one man, wheeling that fucker out of there. Why is it like this and do you guys think it is balanced? If so, why?
  • What about the regular russian 82mm mortar does the last guy retreat with the mortar or abandon?

PS:
  • I know the 120mm has wheels but it is big, and must weigh a lot not to mention the heavy shells. Surely one guy can also carry the 80mm german one.
  • I also know that it is doctrinal, but it is still a mortar, and should function the same as other mortars at least regarding the retreat/abandon mechanic.
  • I mean, doctrinal tanks have the same chance to be abandoned as regular tanks, why should a mortar call-in have different retreat/abandon mechanics than regular mortars?
  • I think the fact that it has 6 men should already make it hard enough to kill. The last guy wheeling it away is imho just a bit too much.


I don't think it's actually a balance problem. It's a bit silly but ho-hum.
9 Sep 2013, 08:32 AM
#63
avatar of Mauser

Posts: 255

I keep hearing the argument that it's unreasonable for one man to carry that mortar - but to fix that "problem" they would actually need to change the animation itself. But moreover, why should we care about soldiers lifting more than is realistically possible? If we did, the AT guns would be damn near immobile.


They might have to change the animation yes, would it be that difficult? I know realism isn't all that important and AT guns are very heavy. However, I am just curious to whether they consciously decided to make the 120mm mortar that surviveable or not. It does have a lot of killing power, and can shoot across half the map, and the vet ability is very deadly. It might be expensive and take a lot of popcap, but isn't this already accounted for with its range/power? Should it have an extra man as well? It just makes it too hard to steal. Even a pak 43 emplacement is easier to de-crew.

9 Sep 2013, 11:39 AM
#64
avatar of alexshiro

Posts: 62

Why would they need to change the animation? Just make it run away if there's 1 guy left, I don't see what the animation has to do with it.

I think it's power is good (unless RNG decides to screw either player), but it should die like other mortars and come out later, at 2 or 3 cp.
9 Sep 2013, 14:12 PM
#65
avatar of JohanSchwarz

Posts: 409

Why would they need to change the animation? Just make it run away if there's 1 guy left, I don't see what the animation has to do with it.

I think it's power is good (unless RNG decides to screw either player), but it should die like other mortars and come out later, at 2 or 3 cp.


The reason the last guy doesn't run off the map is because of the animation issue. It is considered a 1-man crew instead of 2 since only one guy ever touches the mortar.
9 Sep 2013, 22:06 PM
#66
avatar of Omega_Warrior

Posts: 2561

jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2013, 08:32 AMMauser


They might have to change the animation yes, would it be that difficult? I know realism isn't all that important and AT guns are very heavy. However, I am just curious to whether they consciously decided to make the 120mm mortar that surviveable or not. It does have a lot of killing power, and can shoot across half the map, and the vet ability is very deadly. It might be expensive and take a lot of popcap, but isn't this already accounted for with its range/power? Should it have an extra man as well? It just makes it too hard to steal. Even a pak 43 emplacement is easier to de-crew.



Yes, it would actually be difficult to change the animation. I have yet to see a game come out with a new animation in a after game patch. Changing stats is a lot different then making new animations and I'm sure the developers who would be in charge of that are most likely making new content.
9 Sep 2013, 22:13 PM
#67
avatar of tuvok
Benefactor 115

Posts: 786

I'm sure the developers who would be in charge of that are most likely making new content.

Maybe whining Germans can get a £10 DLC that makes 120mm retreat with 2 men then :D
10 Sep 2013, 02:31 AM
#68
avatar of Nullist

Posts: 2425

Permanently Banned
jump backJump back to quoted post9 Sep 2013, 22:13 PMtuvok

Maybe whining Germans can get a £10 DLC that makes 120mm retreat with 2 men then :D


Maybe whining Sovs can get a $10 DLC that allows them to play Sov vs Sov in a representation of constant, perpetual, inneffectual revolutions and civil wars that lead nowhere and are all fail from start to finish.
10 Sep 2013, 07:50 AM
#69
avatar of Mauser

Posts: 255



Yes, it would actually be difficult to change the animation. I have yet to see a game come out with a new animation in a after game patch. Changing stats is a lot different then making new animations and I'm sure the developers who would be in charge of that are most likely making new content.


They don't have to change the animation, just remove one guy then, so its effective 5 man like the other mortars.
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