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Panzerfüsilier Squad VS Volksgrenadier

4 Oct 2020, 19:08 PM
#21
avatar of ReckerYT

Posts: 35

If you are comparing them as mainline infantry; there's no question; Fusilers are better.

More units, only 20 more manpower, hold their own all the way into the late game especially vetted.

And you can have one running around with double schrecks, model 24 and AT grenade.

Their negatives are they are more to reinforce, and 80 muni for G43's and 100 muni for Schrecks aren't cheap.

Their G43's are good at medium range and on the move. Occasionally they'll snipe a unit retreating.

Volks with STG44's get a good power spike in a relatively small window.

Fusilers may not necessarily pour out DPS and wreck Shock Troops/Rangers, but neither do Volks, but they do a lot better against other mainlines in the late game.

I use Fusilers quite a bit with Sturm Offizer, that mark target really turns them on.

I believe shreck fusiliers lose their at grenade
5 Oct 2020, 00:24 AM
#22
avatar of aerafield

Posts: 2758 | Subs: 4

Still can someone answer with actual numbers and stats. I once learnt that PF with g43 arenot snipers they are more SMG.in my experience they are smg not long range at all. Actaully g43 make them worse than volks long range. They annihilate at close rane. Get numbers pls


https://www.coh2db.com/stats/

Their K98 and G43 stats are up to date and as you can see:

- at long range, the K98 of both squads is roughly the same.... but on mid and short range its pretty garbage compared to volk version.
- The G43 is a bit better than stg44 on closerange but at midrange, the volk stg is better. On longrange its roughly the same again.


So in total, the fusiliers with G43 have a tiny tiny bit better longrange dps and better closerange cuz of the 6th model. And slightly better moving dps (stg44 isnt bad here either with 0.75 accuracy modifier).

But personally I dislike fusiliers. They're more expensive (mp and ammo) than volks but for what? DPS that is -to me- barely noticeable any better because most fights happen on long to mid range. Also, locking in a commander immediately at the start means you can get counterpicked or counterplayed. And trash early game if the enemy closes the distance.


Also keep in mind:
- no sandbags which can be a pain in the ass if the map doesnt offer good cover
- no incendiary nade so you cannot deny cover/houses
- no veterancy self-heal
- volks get a -10% received accuracy bonus at vet 1 already. Fusiliers are target size 1 until vet 3, where they then have the same target size like vet 3 volks. Meaning they can drop like flies before that. 10% less damage from small arms fire can make a huge difference in the early game

https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide


But yes, looking at G43 fusiliers in a complete vacuum, they are the superior squad


5 Oct 2020, 16:30 PM
#23
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

I feel like it comes down to playstyle. Players who like to blob into retreat paths or don't have as good micro probably favor Fusies due G43s better moving Acc and the 6th model meaning you are punished less for late retreats. The extra sight/flares also isn't nothing if you're playing against MG spam and need the extra sight for flanks. I always build at least 1 Volk for sandbags - never go full Fusies IMO.
12 Jun 2021, 03:11 AM
#24
avatar of Lewka

Posts: 307

I feel like it comes down to playstyle. Players who like to blob into retreat paths or don't have as good micro probably favor Fusies due G43s better moving Acc and the 6th model meaning you are punished less for late retreats. The extra sight/flares also isn't nothing if you're playing against MG spam and need the extra sight for flanks. I always build at least 1 Volk for sandbags - never go full Fusies IMO.


I think the unit has changed a lot since the original topic of this discussion was brought up. I have seen people use them as a complete mainline replacement of volksgrenadiers, or, like you said, use a mix of the two together. And that is a good point the usefulness of volks being able to place sandbags

Correct me if I am wrong, but if you go full volks instead of full panzerfus then you have better early game power, but if you replace volks as your mainline with panzerfus you are trading some early game power with better late game scaling and long ranged power?
12 Jun 2021, 17:07 PM
#25
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1



https://www.coh2db.com/stats/

Their K98 and G43 stats are up to date and as you can see:

- at long range, the K98 of both squads is roughly the same.... but on mid and short range its pretty garbage compared to volk version.
- The G43 is a bit better than stg44 on closerange but at midrange, the volk stg is better. On longrange its roughly the same again.


So in total, the fusiliers with G43 have a tiny tiny bit better longrange dps and better closerange cuz of the 6th model. And slightly better moving dps (stg44 isnt bad here either with 0.75 accuracy modifier).

But personally I dislike fusiliers. They're more expensive (mp and ammo) than volks but for what? DPS that is -to me- barely noticeable any better because most fights happen on long to mid range. Also, locking in a commander immediately at the start means you can get counterpicked or counterplayed. And trash early game if the enemy closes the distance.


Also keep in mind:
- no sandbags which can be a pain in the ass if the map doesnt offer good cover
- no incendiary nade so you cannot deny cover/houses
- no veterancy self-heal
- volks get a -10% received accuracy bonus at vet 1 already. Fusiliers are target size 1 until vet 3, where they then have the same target size like vet 3 volks. Meaning they can drop like flies before that. 10% less damage from small arms fire can make a huge difference in the early game

https://www.coh2.org/guides/29892/the-company-of-heroes-2-veterancy-guide


But yes, looking at G43 fusiliers in a complete vacuum, they are the superior squad




Füssiliers have better sight range with the G43 update. They also have a flare which gives synergy in combination with JT. As well as the same snare range as Grenadiers, which is very noticeable compared to the Volks Panzerfaust. Obviously having access to snares immediately also helps a lot against the M3. Overall I think Füssiliers are pretty balanced. Going 1-2 Volks, then 2 PF is pretty good and definitely better than just going 3-4 Volks as the game progresses.
12 Jun 2021, 18:22 PM
#26
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1849 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Jun 2021, 03:11 AMLewka



Correct me if I am wrong, but if you go full volks instead of full panzerfus then you have better early game power, but if you replace volks as your mainline with panzerfus you are trading some early game power with better late game scaling and long ranged power?


That's pretty accurate. I'm not quite sure how the G43 and STG compare long range but the early game power and moving accuracy are definitely the most noticeable differences for me. Of course Fusies also require a commander pick but both Fusie commanders are pretty solid overall so this really isn't an issue but something to keep in mind if you think you might need a howitzer or something specific as a counterpick to your opponent(s) commanders.
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