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russian armor

Jackson nerf

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27 Apr 2018, 14:44 PM
#101
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1


Yeah..and that´s why coh2 mods should take care of comments that put people down based on their ranks. I am pretty sure some time ago posts that said something like "playercard pls; ur ranks too bad; u are noob" etc got moderated. Not sure why it isn´t done anymore because it totally got out of hand.

Yeah. I made that point before. Very true for a lot of these wanna be pros that put people down based on their ranks on COH2.ORG.

Ironically the really good players don´t scoop that low.

Timing is also interesting since the phenomenon seems to have become worse at the same time with certain members reappeared, who seem to make a habit of it.

Coincidence, who knows?
27 Apr 2018, 14:46 PM
#102
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1



- Appearance isn't everything!
- That's what ugly person would say.

"Appearance is everything" that is what a person that had undergone several cosmetic surgery would say, who would have a very difficult time when they got older and could no longer hide their age.

Unless they died from anorexia before they even manage getting old.
27 Apr 2018, 14:54 PM
#103
avatar of blvckdream

Posts: 2418 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 14:44 PMVipper

Timing is also interesting since the phenomenon seems to have become worse at the same time with certain members reappeared, who seem to make a habit of it.

Coincidence, who knows?


It´s not katitof who is the worst offender of this believe me
27 Apr 2018, 15:09 PM
#104
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

Open (and rhetorical) question: What is the correct amount of prejudice to bring to a discussion?

That's what yall are bouncing around trying not to say.
27 Apr 2018, 15:18 PM
#105
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 14:34 PMVipper

Rank is not a measure of skill level.

:snfBarton::snfBarton::snfBarton:

Currently Cruzz is not in the top 10 ten 1vs1 with any faction. Does that is his balance assessments less reliable with when he was?

Top player does not mean top 10.
There are more then 20 top players in the game you know.

Let me try to explain this to you with an example:
2 players start playing the game at the same time. Player A like competition so he check what the current meta is and learn who to play it.
Player B is player who likes to play a game and have fun and like to learn things. He check the stat of units and tries using all of them.

Obviously player A manages a higher ladder position but his opinion can hardly be considered better since his knowledge of the game is limited and he has not actually tried to see what thing work and do not work and why.

Its not strategy guides or unit graphs that help evaluate units, doctrines or strats performance.
Its the ability of top players to squeeze the best effects with them(and in some cases simple existence of spam of one unit much more then any other) to evaluate balance of the unit.

You do not evaluate rifle performance based on the opinion of your regular GI.
You evaluate it based on what it can do in the hands of a trained marksman.

You do not need to be the marksman yourself to know if the rifle is good or bad or how it performs, but you will never fully in 100% will be able to provide accurate feedback on it.

This is why modders dealing with balance are not exactly top players, they are the scientist part which is supposed to understand stuff.
Then the feedback part comes in, where(preferably) top players drop their feedback on the changes for modders to re-evaluate it and adjust if there is a need.

You can learn every singular stat by heart, but your feedback(or opinion) won't be much if you are medicore player who is not able to provide evidence. You should know that best.
27 Apr 2018, 15:25 PM
#106
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1



It´s not katitof who is the worst offender of this believe me

I did blame anyone of being the worse in anything is simply made an observation about timing.
27 Apr 2018, 15:30 PM
#107
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 15:18 PMKatitof

...
You can learn every singular stat by heart, but your feedback(or opinion) won't be much if you are medicore player who is not able to provide evidence. You should know that best.

A nice theory but on the other hand my suggestions actually make it into patches.

For instance the upcoming patch lowers the far penetration of the SU-76 as I had suggested years ago and make brens have less DPS and be cheaper as I have also suggested.

How many of your suggestion actually made it to a patch?
and how many times have you provided any evidence?
27 Apr 2018, 15:46 PM
#108
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 15:30 PMVipper

A nice theory but on the other hand my suggestions actually make it into patches.

For instance the upcoming patch lowers the far penetration of the SU-76 as I had suggested years ago and make brens have less DPS and be cheaper as I have also suggested.


Its not because you're one amazing snowflake.
Its because it was the obvious change for the obvious issue.
Same with brens, they could not be nerfed without dropping their price.

You merely kept repeating that "water is wet".

How many of your suggestion actually made it to a patch?
and how many times have you provided any evidence?

Plenty of stuff I've backed made it to the game.
I've been talking about T34 buffs by increasing its MGs DPS instead of main cannon potential long before it went live. I've advocated to lower conscript damage and increase their accuracy from the very moment it was applied to osttruppen couple of YEARS ago. I have been constantly repeating to make OKW medics and repair pios a side upgrade from the very moment they got regular economy and no longer had any penalties that would excuse it. I advocated to increase pyrotechnic range to make brit base arty useful from day 1 of alpha.
One of the most recent was making IL-2 a dual plane call-in, but it was like that not because I had this fucking amazing idea that came to me once I've memorized the very last number in the unit editor or because I have 80% win ratio as axis(i do btw on my AT), but because it was a good change that was previously implemented to other planes and it worked.

Feel free to go over my previous posts on .org and official forums for evidence of that.
It should not be before first 4000 on .org and first 1500 on official forums, so I've narrowed it a bit for you.

As much as you believe yourself to be, you're not that special and just because you repeat obvious solution, which is being picked, because its - well - obvious... doesn't make you anymore right or wrong.
It simply means you managed to identify the issue this one time.
Its not really a dick measuring contest(mine is bigger btw), some changes simply make sense to be in game after you have certain level of understanding of game mechanics and factions and the only question is when people responsible for implementing them will get the same idea.
27 Apr 2018, 16:07 PM
#109
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 15:46 PMKatitof

I've advocated to lower conscript damage and increase their accuracy from the very moment it was applied to osttruppen couple of YEARS ago.

The units work differently.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 15:46 PMKatitof

One of the most recent was making IL-2 a dual plane call-in, but it was like that not because I had this fucking amazing idea that came to me once I've memorized the very last number in the unit editor or because I have 80% win ratio as axis(i do btw on my AT), but because it was a good change that was previously implemented to other planes and it worked

And guess what now it is OP in live and it is being nerfed.

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 15:46 PMKatitof

...
Its not really a dick measuring contest(mine is bigger btw), some changes simply make sense to be in game after you have certain level of understanding of game mechanics and factions and the only question is when people responsible for implementing them will get the same idea.

You keep trying to make it by turning balance issues into personal issues.

BB now.
27 Apr 2018, 16:14 PM
#110
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17583 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 16:07 PMVipper

The units work differently.

The idea was to increase reliability without altering how the unit functions or changing massively its dps or any other radical ideas like stock weapon upgrade and guess what?
Its not implemented.


And guess what now it is OP in live and it is being nerfed.

Guess what again?
Its not losing 2nd plane either.


You keep trying to make it by turning balance issues into personal issues.

BB now.

Well, you asked first how many of my ideas were implemented after boasting about SU-76 change and you try to give me this crap now?
Vipper plz :snfBarton:
27 Apr 2018, 16:32 PM
#111
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 12979 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Apr 2018, 16:14 PMKatitof


And I am not going to go personal. You can have the last word, I don't mind BB now.
27 Apr 2018, 18:17 PM
#112
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1043 | Subs: 1


snip



One thing to note about strawman is that it has to be unrelated/irrelevant . In my opinion (This can vary of course), when talking about balance then a players rank or playercard is not out of the question. This is because some players think things are OP because they don't know the factions or counters to said units.

For example lets say I'm talking about how the Jackson is too op, then someone comes along and says something like "You cant use the JP4 or Stug so your opinion is invalid." That would be strawman because there is not really a correlation between the 2 arguments and I didn't talk about either of those units.

Meanwhile lets say someone whos rank 2000+ OKW only says the Jackson OP. Bringing up the fact that they do not play USF or other allied factions is reasonable evidence for why his or her opinion may be less credible then someone whos top 100-200 in all factions.

Similarly if someone brings up an old replay or post and attacks that instead of your argument that would be strawman also.

This is just an example of course.

27 Apr 2018, 23:40 PM
#113
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
Director of Moderation Badge

Posts: 4099 | Subs: 3



Yeah..and that exactly shows the problem. I like Hans but he often makes emotional statements about balance. Statements that are often totally exaggerated. Which is why not everything Hans says is automatically right just because he is a top-class player.

In the same way something isn´t automatically wrong just because it comes from a noob. Unfortunately a big group of people on COH2.org doesn´t even try to come up with good points and just goes for "you are noob, you are wrong". IMO there should be forum rules against this. People need to get off their high horses. It´s pathetic how people who have never even achieved anything in COH2.org feel the need to put other down because they have better ranks.

There are lots of very good players who are very biased aswell, prime example would be Zarok. Who is working on the balance patch while basically writing "Axis UP. Nerf Allies" in every second threat.


+1. While I love hans and think he's a nice guy, it doesn't make him always correct. Although he probably will be more than some rank 5ks.
28 Apr 2018, 00:26 AM
#114
avatar of GI John 412

Posts: 495 | Subs: 1

Well I'm pretty crappy at the game on all factions. Does that mean that I'm fair and balanced because I suck equally? lol

But seriously folks, let's all be gentlemen.
28 Apr 2018, 02:37 AM
#115
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5277

what a cluster fuck of off topic mess this thread has turned out to be....
cant we ll just keep our reservations of one another and apply them ourselves and leave others to do the same?
2 May 2018, 08:29 AM
#116
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 2241

Ullumulu here:

I told at the last Update-patch-test:

- cons with ppsh are to strong compared to other other infantery which are much expansiver....

- Jackson are the strongest nondoc TD with no weakpoint (other TDs maybe better in some stats...but they have mostly more than 1 weakpoint (for example no turrent, slow, low accurracy etc)), which are overpushed in teamgames...

- double wilding IS with double weopoans upgrades ...and the Truck which can put down weopoans...to your teammate which mutant to obers with low pricetag

- guard + sniper combo ...both unit are overpushed ... i made videos where you can see that guards shredd armor like panzergrens and shredd infantery like obers...u get two german unit in one!...with 6models, armor slow and grenades

- Il2 noskill-button-autowin ... argued that its really to strong


and all this thing i told this to this forum in the patch phase...
2 May 2018, 09:07 AM
#117
avatar of thedarkarmadillo

Posts: 5277

Ullumulu here:

I told at the last Update-patch-test:

- cons with ppsh are to strong compared to other other infantery which are much expansiver....

And they are also the only nainline across 5 factions that doesnt have a weapon without a doctrine, surely it can be accepted that in the occasion they do pick a ppsh doctrine they are a bit more effecient to compensate for being worse 100% of the time they dont pick those doctrines? It at least has a drawback (range) which others dont (or a negligible difference anyways)
In SBP they are demoing it anyways (by that i mean "adjusting" it out of the game like they did the demo charge) reducing its mid range dps slightly would be preferable or making it more expensive to match other investments since soviet float munitions like nobody else but i guess removing it from the game works too.
2 May 2018, 09:13 AM
#118
avatar of mondeogaming1

Posts: 464

Jackson nerf is fine. Rifles stomp everything in early game so it should always be enough to snowball you into mid game medium armor spam.

If you gave them enough fuel for multiple Stugs, Panthers, or Tigers, you deserved to lose that game anyways.

Nothing to see here.
So you say that USF should only win early game and late game should we doomed if i remember corecly OST has super early mg and OKW has sturms that destoy rifles
2 May 2018, 12:29 PM
#119
avatar of Swift

Posts: 2723 | Subs: 1

Can we bring the topic back to the Jackson nerf please?
3 May 2018, 07:34 AM
#120
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

jump backJump back to quoted post2 May 2018, 12:29 PMSwift
Can we bring the topic back to the Jackson nerf please?


I was just about to say the same thing :D
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