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COH2 STREAMER ETIQUETTE

  • This thread is locked
Is it OK to stream COH2 during a tournament?
Option Distribution Votes
10%
49%
41%
If streaming COH2 during a tournament which option is best?
Option Distribution Votes
12%
12%
26%
49%
Total votes: 146
Vote VOTE! Vote ABSTAIN
3 Apr 2018, 23:26 PM
#1
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1763 | Subs: 2

Community opinion polls about streaming during a tournament.
3 Apr 2018, 23:30 PM
#2
avatar of d0ggY
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 811 | Subs: 3

Close that thread? As Streamers we should take this in our own hands and support each other
A_E
3 Apr 2018, 23:31 PM
#3
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2419 | Subs: 6

Rosbone this poll misses the mark horribly, I don't think you've fully read the thread have you?

For example where is the option "talk to the tournament organisers first, obtain permission then cast games."

And no one said people couldn't stream CoH2 whilst a tournament was on, that would be madness, well at least there was nothing in that thread that said that.

Why is it that people making these polls always have a strange vision...
3 Apr 2018, 23:31 PM
#4
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1763 | Subs: 2

A great part of this community is how the streamers seem to support each other. But the area of streaming during a tournament is a grey area. Some people frown on a large streamer streaming during a tournament. Some do not care.

I would like to see the continued support where large streamers step down when a tournament is on. But it gets grey again if there are tournaments every weekend and they run for long periods of time. As this cuts in to prime time streaming.

I am curious what the community as a whole feels.
3 Apr 2018, 23:34 PM
#5
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1763 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post3 Apr 2018, 23:31 PMA_E
Rosbone this poll misses the mark horribly, I don't think you've fully read the thread have you?

This is not about the Stormless thread. But the thread touched on streaming during others broadcasts. And I thought some of that would get hashed out in the Stormless thread, but it got locked before any good could come of it.

EDIT: And Hans has an even greyer twist in that he is a variety streamer. So many of his viewers may never watch the tournament anyway. They tune in for Hans only.
4 Apr 2018, 00:33 AM
#6
avatar of Tatatala

Posts: 589

No grey area in my book. The tournament is the sole property of the creators, all rights are theirs, unless stated.

Simple copyright law.
4 Apr 2018, 00:41 AM
#7
avatar of ZombiFrancis

Posts: 2742

...Just don't restream?

I could otherwise give a shit less what people stream during a tournament.
4 Apr 2018, 01:40 AM
#8
avatar of c0mpl3x1ty

Posts: 399 | Subs: 1

This is so dumb. You guys realize that the first two options in poll 2 are against twitch TOS right? I think we should let these streamers do that so everyone can report them for violating the rules.
4 Apr 2018, 02:05 AM
#9
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

IMO people are creating a gray area where there should definitely not be one.

Tournament creators go through a lot of time and effort in producing quality and fun tournaments for a community, they should reap the benefits of their hard work without the viewership being split. No other serious E-Sport Community allows streaming of events (with small possible exceptions) and COH2 should not either.

Edit: Additionally straight up dubbing over other streamers is a copyright infringement that is definitely against twitch TOS.

To make a profit off of other people's hard earned work is wrong and should be addressed now. In my opinion, it's a given rule that you do not stream a live tournament without permission of the tournament directors.
4 Apr 2018, 05:08 AM
#10
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1763 | Subs: 2

For MMA fans, Joe Rogan routinely does a podcast during a UFC event. He is just chatting with friends as THEY watch. None of the broadcast is shown or heard in the podcast. So it is a casual party atmosphere.

This seems like a possible option for COH2 streamers. This would allow for viewers to hang out, to hear the streamers thoughts, AND would encourage them to watch the original tournament stream.

I also like this approach because my Inet sucks. And sometimes I can not watch multiple streams. So I could have audio/chat only from the streamer and full broadcast of the tourney. More available options for everyone.
4 Apr 2018, 05:32 AM
#11
avatar of Highfiveeeee

Posts: 1740

I as a "marketing person" don't see why streaming and restreaming should be forbidden.

I respect all the streamers around here and sometimes I also like to rewatch games (not from this particular tournament), especially from Dane and A_E, because I enjoy them the most.

BUT

People complaining about copyright law and stuff sound a tad ridiculous to be honest. This is not the League of Legend LCS also not an MMA Tournament, as someone mentioned. It is a CoH2 game, please stay with your efforts.

While the LCS and MMA attract between 1 and 20 million people depending on the game and tournament, the "average" game of CoH2 has usually around 50 viewers for a "usual" stream and around 500 for this kind of tournament.

So it is not like these kinds of tournaments are here to make money. With the uploads on Youtube that get usually 2.000 views at best, you make less than two dollars. The LCS and the MMA are such events so there are strict laws who may stream and who may not.

But my personal opinion? Let the guys stream. It brings attention to these kinds of events. The money comes from sponsors like Dr. Wachs who would also benefit from a bigger viewership.

Honestly some things feel like the stuff we were protesting against 5 years ago, NDA and such. Most viewers will either way watch the "main channel" of a tournament, in this case A_E's. Other streamers can generate more viewers out of post-match analysis and stuff that's okay too.

But right now, I personally have no idea what this tournament is about and I am on this board everyday. I hope I wasn't too harsh about you guys, but sometimes I feel like some people here tend to sit on some kind of a high horse.
4 Apr 2018, 05:43 AM
#12
avatar of Gbpirate
Senior Editor Badge

Posts: 1065

Streaming is an important part of promoting and maintaining interest in CoH2 (and even CoH1) so many years after release. For those that do stream regularly with relatively high numbers of viewers, viewer count is important, especially so for those who are running organized events. It is also important to those who depend on viewer, subscriber, and follower counts to earn income for themselves.

If I chose to stream coh2, I most definitely wouldn't stream during an official event; I'd most likely be watching said event. If I was participating in an event, I probably wouldn't be streaming my own game either, though players are able to do that if they wish. Tournament organizers are also able to request participants that they do not stream their own games.

It has already been established that streaming another streamer's content is against Twitch's terms of service, barring the observer mode.

It would be improper etiquette, though not violating Twitch's terms of service, to stream live replays of tournament games if you have not asked the tournament organizers for explicit permission to do so. This is usually done well in advance (I believe Romeo and Dane have already been asked and announced that they will be streaming GCS2 qualifiers over the summer and it was the same case with GCS), though if there are last minute technical or scheduling conflicts I'm sure things can be organized on an ad-hoc basis.

If you're not involved with a tournament that's happening and you're playing coh2 in automatch rankings or dicking around in private games, I see no reason why you shouldn't be able to stream your own gameplay. Although, personally, I wouldn't do that (like I said I'd be watching the live stream/participating), nothing is stopping you from streaming your own gameplay.

Another thing that hasn't been tackled yet, with regards to YouTube videos, if I were to cast a tournament game and upload it directly to YouTube, I would probably ask the tournament organizers first. Out of etiquette and respect, of course, not because of Relic or .org rules.

I believe that this is a learning experience for the community and should be used as an opportunity to learn what is and is not acceptable and establish the public consensus or private resolutions as precedent for handling potential incidents in the future. We should grow out of this incident stronger and more united in our love of this game and respect for each other's hard work in gaming skill, casting skill, and the styles and conduct that streamers engage in when using their twitch accounts.

If I've said anything wrong, if someone disagrees with me, or I have omitted something, please say so. I'm not really sure what I'm trying to do here besides summarize what I've read from others, read on twitch, seen on twitch, was witness to on Sunday, and what I believe is proper etiquette. Perhaps this can form the basis of a Public Service Announcement post here on .org in the coming weeks? Perhaps that may prove to be divisive.
4 Apr 2018, 06:37 AM
#13
avatar of TheMachine
Senior Caster Badge

Posts: 874 | Subs: 6

Yeah... oversimplified polls like these aren't constructive.
A_E
4 Apr 2018, 07:24 AM
#14
avatar of A_E
Lead Caster Badge
Donator 11

Posts: 2419 | Subs: 6

The main thread is now unlocked. https://www.coh2.org/post/create/thread_id/68963
4 Apr 2018, 12:33 PM
#15
avatar of empirescurropt

Posts: 706 | Subs: 1

this is so sad looks like no one waNTS to make events but every one wants to grab viewers and income for they pokets ...........

so i will just put the event on my stream and just grab all that cash for my self it you guys hard work on the finacial level and organizing the event .


!! so dam disapointed seing this type of play !! this should be eliminated !!
5 Apr 2018, 00:18 AM
#16
avatar of randomeveplayer

Posts: 3

Right hold my beer.

I was going to post in the main thread but it got locked (QQ)

First streaming a stream dick move, bad han's .

streaming tourney games without permission ethically dubious, but not illegal

Now on to details. The fact you want to argue that depending on how many watch you makes some difference on if you should or shouldn't stream is pants on head retarted the simple question is .... If some one is streaming a tourney is it ok to stream the same game... and the answer is yes. No question if you think otherwise get the fuck out. You simply can't tell others what to stream just because you happen to be doing a tournament, which is what your implying.

Now calling han's out as you did, dick move (you can say you didn't, but lets be honest you did) You should have def handled this in private.

Now down to a couple arguments, and this is my POV. Stormless said hans denied him views. So I've been watching coh2 for 3 or 4 years I mainly watch Vonivan, Sib and Hans. Now when tourneys happen I still tend to only watch them people in their stream. In previous events I only watched player from there POV not the main event. This is down to the fact I didn't really know the other people. but most down to I followed these people. Would I have even Known about this even if it wasn't for them. NO. Would I have watched this if I hadn't watched it on Hans stream............. NO

But the simple fact is that you can't assume all han's people would watch you. hell more people probably watched the matches he did commentate on, cos they like him and watch him. These are the people like me who wouldn't have watched the event.

Now to the some thing (which I sort of already covered) Sturmpanther. Trying to say when people should or shouldn't stream coh2 cos there is a tourney on on.............. Don't want to want to say Hitler but...(don't be a nazi)People can stream what they want. when they want, regardless of what happening. Even if that offends you.

Ohh and to VonIvan (One of the few sensible people in this) And this is totally unrelated to all this shit, thats happening. never not troll
5 Apr 2018, 00:59 AM
#17
avatar of IJustDontCare

Posts: 55

Wheres the "who gives a shit" option?
5 Apr 2018, 01:13 AM
#18
avatar of Tric
Master Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1451 | Subs: 4

Right hold my beer.

First streaming a stream dick move, bad han's .

streaming tourney games without permission ethically dubious, but not illegal



Actually streaming someone else's forgone IP (tournament, content reveal ect;) is actually against ToS if not given permission. Which all of this could have been avoided if permission had been asked. Restreaming a stream while it is live is also against ToS and

https://www.twitch.tv/p/legal/terms-of-service/
https://www.twitch.tv/p/legal/dmca-guidelines/

There is more than enough proof to file a DMCA against hans to get his VoD removed if people wanted to, and a temp ban at minimum on twitch for breaking ToS.

Here is just a quick google of examples

https://www.reddit.com/r/hearthstone/comments/62mm8t/amazs_twitch_channel_was_just_banned_due_to_terms/
https://www.reddit.com/r/LivestreamFail/comments/7al1vt/quin69_banned_for_restreaming_authorized_blizzard/
https://www.reddit.com/r/DotA2/comments/36uz44/grandgrant_just_got_banned_from_twitch/

Honestly this is one of the most banned frequently banned things on twitch. The only real thing making not streaming a tourney when you don't have permission would be copyright for logos and things like that, but there is significant evidence that this IP belongs to Currahee and company, so yah. Hell the big anti-titty streamer movement that started up the new ToS was getting streamers banned left and right for insecure men restreaming women in the IRL section and calling them cam girls.

Fragile snowflakes in some cases yes, but this is still a big blow for hans if people report his twitch. Especially for his behavior today on stream.

All of this could've been avoided if he simply asked permission, as currahhee stated in the thread that is locked. Just my quick, hastily drawn up, 2 cents.
5 Apr 2018, 01:27 AM
#19
avatar of Rosbone
Senior Mapmaker Badge

Posts: 1763 | Subs: 2

Yeah... oversimplified polls like these aren't constructive.

Yeah... oversimplified statements like these aren't constructive.
5 Apr 2018, 01:53 AM
#20
avatar of TheBorg0

Posts: 8

He shouldn't stream other people casting or playing, if he goes in replay fair play. Honestly it's a non-issue.
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