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2v2 mortar pit worth it?

26 Feb 2018, 14:55 PM
#21
avatar of SeismicSquall

Posts: 156

Played 2v2 vs UKF and SOV, as OKW, with my friend OST. A soon as I saw 2 mortar pits, I went Feurstorm and built 2 ISGs as soon as the Med truck deployed. Let me tell you, even then it was not easy. I remained within max barrage range the whole time and the pit shells still managed to hit me the whole time. I barely had enough time to walk in, flame barrage and then wheel the ISGs out of range.

I thought of barraging first, forcing brace on him, waiting and then doing the flame barrage, but that just had me sitting for too long in one place and the ISGs kept getting decrewed. I destroyed the 2 pits once, but the micro tax was felt, I had to protect the ISGs as they are vulnerable to to any kind of fire and flank, and getting them to safety felt like wheel barrowing a drunken fat guy through a narrow doorway. I eventually found myself defending a pocket which ended up in the middle of crater field when the katushya came out.

26 Feb 2018, 15:14 PM
#22
avatar of ullumulu

Posts: 1805

Played 2v2 vs UKF and SOV, as OKW, with my friend OST. A soon as I saw 2 mortar pits, I went Feurstorm and built 2 ISGs as soon as the Med truck deployed. Let me tell you, even then it was not easy. I remained within max barrage range the whole time and the pit shells still managed to hit me the whole time. I barely had enough time to walk in, flame barrage and then wheel the ISGs out of range.

I thought of barraging first, forcing brace on him, waiting and then doing the flame barrage, but that just had me sitting for too long in one place and the ISGs kept getting decrewed. I destroyed the 2 pits once, but the micro tax was felt, I had to protect the ISGs as they are vulnerable to to any kind of fire and flank, and getting them to safety felt like wheel barrowing a drunken fat guy through a narrow doorway. I eventually found myself defending a pocket which ended up in the middle of crater field when the katushya came out.



this.

You need much more micro and skill to deal with the CHEAP 400mp unit..its cost often awhole army to deal with it and its support around it.

while the brit player settled it one time down and has no problem to defend it
26 Feb 2018, 16:08 PM
#23
avatar of Antaria

Posts: 68

Right now, it's completely situational. In a sense, like all mortars, it forces the opponent to keep moving, but it can't actually move. So as brits, if your infantry are forced to retreat, your mortar pit is vulnerable, the brace won't save you. If the enemy counter-barrage the mortar pit, you have to make time for royal engineers to keep it alive, and that's time spent off map control/vehicle maintenance.

The biggest asset a mortar pit can provide is the smoke with increased range, and the fact that the HE and smoke are on separate cooldowns. It's not the AFK wiping machine it was before, because now you have to actually click twice. :faint:

Its cost is entirely dependent on how you fight your early-mid game. 400mp is not cheap, people can afford double mortars with legs for only 80mp more, and what you're getting is a static emplacement that can block 1 flame nade max with brace and die to anything else after that. With this being said, it forces the brit player to revolve around the mortar pit.

In the higher levels of 2v2, mortar pits are worth it if you need it, can defend it, and use all of its abilities to their fullest potential. Otherwise, buy another squad of infantry of some sort.
26 Feb 2018, 17:15 PM
#24
avatar of EtherealDragon

Posts: 1434 | Subs: 1

Antaria nailed it.

You can't just build them and not micro them and expect to get your MP worth anymore. Personally I find that you have to use them as barrage machines - just keep actively counter barraging any opponents counter-indirect fire and repair in the downtime when you force their mortars off. Rinse and Repeat and they are worth it. The smoke also has HUGE range now - spam it on support weapons and follow up (especially juicy with commandos).

You also have to get good and building them in defensible position. Avoid open sight lines and paths with easy flanks because if a flame nade forces you to pop brace then literally almost any follow-up means a dead Pit.
26 Feb 2018, 19:00 PM
#25
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 13:49 PMKatitof
Where I again, do not agree with him, just say a simple fact that one gets range inscrease and other do not, while providing latest changes for one.

So you actually agree with Ullumulu that the mortar-pit out-ranges the grw34?



26 Feb 2018, 19:15 PM
#26
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13674 | Subs: 7

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 19:00 PMVipper

So you actually agree with Ullumulu that the mortar-pit out-ranges the grw34?





For F sake, I never disagreed with him in the first place that's one.

And two, where are my flowers? I already picked a place we can go to.
26 Feb 2018, 19:19 PM
#27
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 19:15 PMKatitof

For F sake, I never disagreed with him in the first place that's one.

I asked if you agree and that response does not answer the question. Because you have not agreed either.

Does the mortar-pit out-ranges the grw34?

26 Feb 2018, 19:37 PM
#28
avatar of JohnSmith

Posts: 833

Jeez Vipper, do you have to turn every thread into a Katitof - troll attempt fest? :(
26 Feb 2018, 19:53 PM
#29
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3902

still wating for the mr smith chancges to mortar pit

ps: katitof+vipper new ship
26 Feb 2018, 20:38 PM
#30
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2699 | Subs: 2

still wating for the mr smith chancges to mortar pit

ps: katitof+vipper new ship


News Flash, whatever you do with the mortar pit it will either be shit or OP because it's a shittly designed unit.

Just because OKW is having a hard time dealing with it doesn't really mean it's OP if you ask me, it's just that the OKW was heavily fucked this balance patch, that's all.

But I don't think that the Wehr mortars have a problem dealing with the pits, God forbid Relic added the Urban Assault commander into the fray so they got a flame barrage, that would have been awesome to see but an even bigger pain for the pit.

Right now I see no other alternative than a mobile mortar to be honest and have for a while but people keep trying to add new kinks to the pit which simply do not fucking work.

But yeah, keep wasting your time, seems funny from the sidelines with some popcorn in hand.
26 Feb 2018, 23:05 PM
#31
avatar of Severino

Posts: 38

C'mon guys, I haven't been on the forums in ages but I recognised that ullumulu was biased from one post, hence why I ignored him. I find it's easier to just not respond. Can we keep relatively on topic for at least 50% of the posts?

@Antaria: I agree. So what do you do vs ost mortar mg spam, or just plain volk blob?

@EtherealDragon: Forgive me, but how exactly do you 'micro' an immobile unit? Do you mean picking when to use barrage? I do that already, and you can't out-mortar two ost mortars or two leigs. You can't repair fast enough, brace has a massive cooldown, as Antaria says, one flame nade is enough to wreck it, and if your army has to retreat for any reason, it's dead.

@SeismicSquall: So one UKF player invested 800mp into mortar pits... you should've been dominating the map by that point. I can't say I've ever been in a position to do that. It's usually a struggle just getting one up and keeping on top of map control. I find flame dots last through brace long enough to do serious damage. Double leig is a hard counter.

I find it too difficult to keep alive and not worth the investment. Sure, placement is important, but it's a combat unit. It has to be close enough to the front to attack, and since the range is barely longer than regular mortars, if it can attack it can be attacked (and you can't retreat it).

So what is the alternative? Sniper, carrier, more inf? Just doesn't seem viable with no indirect whatsoever.
26 Feb 2018, 23:37 PM
#32
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1


...
So what is the alternative? Sniper, carrier, more inf? Just doesn't seem viable with no indirect whatsoever...

Since you are talking about 2vs2 if you need indirect fire support you can ask you ally to provide it while you can provide support to him with HMG or ATGs.

Another approach is to use the base 25 Pdrs gun vs enemy support weapons, it is actually very cost efficient.

To answer the original question Mortar pit in 2vs2 imo is worth it on certain map or commanders/strategies, I personally would avoid it if could.
27 Feb 2018, 01:06 AM
#33
avatar of Severino

Posts: 38

I guess I'm not at the level yet where my teammates are that good at coordinating. It's hard expecting a teammate to make up for such a big deficiency.

I use the base arty where I can, but it's not ideal. It's pretty easy to avoid damage, but I use it as cover/area denial.

What maps do you recommend?
27 Feb 2018, 06:32 AM
#34
avatar of Firesparks

Posts: 1930

jump backJump back to quoted post26 Feb 2018, 13:24 PMVipper

Another nice but wrong theory from katitof.

Auto attack range for mortar-pit is 90
Auto attack for grw34 is 80

Pit out-ranges grw34

Barrage range for mortar-pit is 115
Barrage for grw34 is 80
Barrage range for vet 3 grw34 104 (grw34 the range bonus applies only to barrage)

Pit out-ranges grw34




I wonder if the larger hitbox on the mortar pit equalize the extra range. in coh1 the 17 pounder had the same problem.
27 Feb 2018, 07:13 AM
#35
avatar of Antaria

Posts: 68

@Antaria: I agree. So what do you do vs ost mortar mg spam, or just plain volk blob?


I'll assume double mortar and double MG42. In that case, if the map is full of green cover, I'll go WASP and focus on the MG42s and push with infantry. If the map is open, like Crossing in the Woods, I'll go Vickers K on the UC and try to attack from an angle where cover is negated. Either way MG42s will retreat or melt. You have to be mobile vs ost mortars, they're very good and you have to flank them and catch them unprotected. If you don't like going UC, you can tech grenades vs team weapons, but keep in mind it's quite muni intensive. Pyrotechnic Flares for area denial is great as well, since the first howie acts as accurate area denial and the second howie acts as RNG bombs.

If it's a true blob like 4 squads in a small area, then just use a UC with Vickers K or Vickers HMG with tommy/sapper support, buy time for the Centaur.

Keep in mind this is in 2v2, so your ally can cover areas that you miss, may it be mortars, MGs, or more infantry to flank the opponent.
27 Feb 2018, 09:17 AM
#36
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 6241 | Subs: 1



I wonder if the larger hitbox on the mortar pit equalize the extra range. in coh1 the 17 pounder had the same problem.

It does not.
27 Feb 2018, 12:21 PM
#37
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3902



News Flash, whatever you do with the mortar pit it will either be shit or OP because it's a shittly designed unit.

Just because OKW is having a hard time dealing with it doesn't really mean it's OP if you ask me, it's just that the OKW was heavily fucked this balance patch, that's all.

But I don't think that the Wehr mortars have a problem dealing with the pits, God forbid Relic added the Urban Assault commander into the fray so they got a flame barrage, that would have been awesome to see but an even bigger pain for the pit.

Right now I see no other alternative than a mobile mortar to be honest and have for a while but people keep trying to add new kinks to the pit which simply do not fucking work.

But yeah, keep wasting your time, seems funny from the sidelines with some popcorn in hand.
dude do u know how mr smith changed it in his patch ? u can pack it up and has only 1 mortar less life and can be upgraded to 2 at the cost of pack up ability pluss it has 0 armor and 20 target size 2 eng squad could kill it close range
27 Feb 2018, 12:37 PM
#38
avatar of A. Soldier
Social Media Manager Badge

Posts: 2699 | Subs: 2

dude do u know how mr smith changed it in his patch ? u can pack it up and has only 1 mortar less life and can be upgraded to 2 at the cost of pack up ability pluss it has 0 armor and 20 target size 2 eng squad could kill it close range


What part of the British needing a non-doc and non-fuel costing mobile indirect fire unit is not making sense to you exactly?

I respect Mr. Smith and him wanting to keep the British "unique", he is even a contributor on Planet Smasher's Artillery Pit mod on Steam. However I don't entirely agree with his methods, it was just a different take on "keeping the British unique" which didn't make the final cut for obvious reasons.
27 Feb 2018, 16:33 PM
#39
avatar of Stug life

Posts: 3902



What part of the British needing a non-doc and non-fuel costing mobile indirect fire unit is not making sense to you exactly?

I respect Mr. Smith and him wanting to keep the British "unique", he is even a contributor on Planet Smasher's Artillery Pit mod on Steam. However I don't entirely agree with his methods, it was just a different take on "keeping the British unique" which didn't make the final cut for obvious reasons.
so you want them to have a mobile mortar ? if so we gotta remove the aec or give ost light tank
27 Feb 2018, 17:20 PM
#40
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 13674 | Subs: 7

so you want them to have a mobile mortar ? if so we gotta remove the aec or give ost light tank

Why?
OKW got all of that(ISG, puma, luchs) and they gave up nothing for it.
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